Yeah, I'd say both mobs need either some serious tweaking or they need to shed some more light on the video they released about AV. People passing out and vomiting from playing non-stop should be a clear signal. I've had my fair share of lengthy play bursts in one sitting, but I always took it easy and tried not to burn myself out.

In my opinion it shouldn't be up to SE to make the game any easier in order for someone to not spend 18 hours fighting a mob to get the drops (some of which are game breaking). It should be up to the players to know their limits and when to stop. If you know that you can't play for 18 hours straight fighting one mob then don't do it. Plus I like the idea of a truly "undefeatable" enemy as opposed to one that a group of organized adventurers can just waltz over.

An 18+ hour fight... hot damn. I'll stay away from this mob. Sure, that +20 Atk +20 Acc piece looks nice, but I'm not going to spent 18+ Hours each fight. I'll congratulate people when they defeat it, but I myself am just fine not fighting him. Instead, I'll spend those 18+ hours leveling a job. At least I'll have something to show for it. >3

I just find it completly halarious that they give a warning before logging in about not letting the game affect your life then throw this stuff at the players

Coming from being an old World of Warcraft raider (played that horrid game from release), having a fight that lasts 18 hours is WAAAAAY too long. There was a time in WoW where I raided 6 hours a night, 5-6 nights a week. That made me physically ill and it just about killed my social life and the relationship I am in. Playing that much for that long starts to take a toll on the psyche as well. Scrap the 18 hour fights... the longest singular fight I would ever want to be a part of is 3-5 hours. Then I MIGHT want to participate.

This is getting a lot of press:

• link 1
• link 2
• link 3
• link 4
• link 5

And another: http://www.t...-youll-puke/

This is not the type of press i wanted SE to get >_> but its their own fault for expecting players to do this just for a few rare items. With this press i belive that they will be forced to act on this

I have often taken a backseat approach to most of SE behaviors,as a member of the USA we take back seat to most of their considerations .... update times... reports of gil sellers .... most of the the things that as a job holder I take very personally on my limited game time.... but an 18 fight just means to me that SE has obviously forgotten that there are those that WORK for a living.... so while I may have that goal of obtaining those almost god like items I know they are just dreams... for I will never in this life time have 18 free hours to participate in that fight

Beyond a doubt to require anyone to sit and participate for 18+ hours non-stop in a single boss fight is ridiculous. I thought that the AV fight was beyond measure now I see that PW is worse. What sense does it make to create a boss of this magnitude? Even if they reduced to the difficulty to 3-6hours, what other NM or HNM even compares to that as far as 18+ person parties are concerned? In my opinion, SE is going way to far on the difficulty rating. They need to sit back down and rethink whats "challenging" and "enjoyable" means, and if the disclaimer they show you before you log in each time is really their true intent and dont want you to inhibit your real life they should start applying it to what the are developing. 18+ hours is unrealistic for 99.9% if not all their subscribers to spend a single fight. Sorry for the rant but I have been playing for a long time and have been there for what seem to me as the "Apathy" era of SE when they showed little to no interest in improving the game experience for gamers, and until more recently seemed like they never would. Not saying they havent ever made adjustments for the better, Despawn and AOE patches and more recently the annoucement of the sept update seems like they are taking more consideration of the players then ever before.

There could be a trick involved that is not known.

a well-oiled PWLS could do it easy. people need to consider that there are always people with less free time than you, so much so that they consider it impossible to be play ffxi. the game needs it's test, anyone who devotes themselves to it deserve to be tested. i've heard that disclaimer cited too many times; what if your life IS ffxi? is that so easily deemed dangerously asocial behavior? lols.. but seriously. they will likely nerf it somewhat, as you know that is the natural way of things. people are going to rage on SE for what they do, people do that vs everything, blindly and on sight. i think an hour is a long-ass time, but i'm not a gold-medal player in a game i consider to be a gold-medal mmo. pardon me, i'm watching the olympics. ya'll know what i mean tho, SE has a right to build a final boss for their mmo and put a handful of devilishly delectible items behind it; and chances are the world at large will be a little bewildered that you can't be walked thru it by gamefaqs. let's be fair; no one is making you do this. you don't need to; don't. as this is so, what can you say? no one has anything to say about this, not sure i do either. it's crazy; but maybe that is the neatest part.

...eighteen hours. If I understand things properly, the next hardest fight (not counting AV) is capped at no more than 60 minutes. (no, Dynamis bosses don't count - I've seen DL dropped in three minutes flat)

Twelve times longer than the next roughest fight and still no win.

W T F???????

Not even the Treant Gods from that one ancient event took THAT long to drop. What is SE -thinking-?

A three-hour fight that taxes the skills of every last player involved but is nevertheless winnable, that I can get behind. An 18-hour war of attrition? Sorry, even D-Day was ended in less time.

I think it's just par for the course. Look at what it takes to fully upgrade a relic weapon. It's not something I will ever be up for myself, but I'm sure some people will. Likely the same people who never miss a dynamis/sky/sea/limbus run.

This game offers a wide variety of skill levels and challenges. To insist that all things must be available to all players is the same as saying that it is an human right to own a new Cadillac STS. I've played this game for over 3 years and my highest job level is 55. So what! Is that SE fault? No. The point is you get from it what you put into it. And finally folks always remember; It is just a video game. No more no less.

A few things have to be considered before honestly believing that this battle really requires 18+ hours of time to legitimately defeat.

Firstly, it's a pretty new boss. There's a good chance there's a secret strategy to defeat this within a reasonable amount of time that nobody has discovered yet. After all who would have guessed that you need to /kneel to avoid Odin's special killer TP move? There's plenty of obscure methods of getting through things that SE throws at us that are both known and unknown.

Lastly, it's totally optional. Nobody is to blame for spending 18 hours of fighting except those who willingly took it that far.

But if there is a Trick shouldnt SE have programed a way for the players to know? from all the accounts I have read they seemed to be making progress the whole 18 hours and stopped on what they thought was the last boss. Sure its a new boss and there might be a trick to all this but honestly at the 5 hour mark if they didnt know the trick the NM should have said, "well you dono how to beat me so goodbye" and just warped away or AOE death

Even completely disregarding Pandemonium Warden, Absolute Virtue is EXPECTED to take 18 hours? 18 hours on PW saw combatants passing out and vomiting. Square-Enix knowingly and intentionally created a monster that may risk the health of those who fought it. They've historically shown a disregard for their player base that they've only recently begun to remedy, but this is the cherry on top. It's simply inexcusable.

Simple facts are:

A: They didn't win even after 18 hours. It's probably not beatable. End of the point that not everyone should have everything when this is no one can have it. What's the point of the mob other than many people wasting time.

2: The bosses should be killable but AV and PW aren't realistically.

Gamma: The whole point is the laughable statement you get when you log on from SE about not damaging your personal life.

Hmmm... it's taken me about 3 hours just to think up something to say that doesn't come across as a flame. I agree with the "there's gotta be a trick to it" crowd, because I found the infamous Ruby Weapon to be a pushover when I first played FF7 (although I got wiped out the first time I fought him, I figured out how to take him down in ~5 minutes the second time). (If you don't know the trick by now, here's a hint: Hades + W-Summon + Mime.) OTOH, I also agree with the "it took _how_ _long_?!? Is SE kidding?!?" side of the argument. Just because the designers _can_ make a monster that takes more than a reasonable amount of time (4-6 hours of real-time battling, using strategy and tricks like the group in question presumably did against PW) does _not_ mean that they _should_!! If PW were a special event monster that featured in a tournament at E3 or the like, I wouldn't care that it took 18+ hours to beat. But I worry that even once people figure out the trick(s) and (I assume) post them on sites like this, it will still take 8-10 hours of real time to beat. Yes, I hope I'm wrong, but still... is it that much of a stretch of the imagination to see SE or another game company being that chicken****? Bosses should be tough so that players who choose to fight them can brag about beating them afterward, but they shouldn't be so tough that experienced gamers with thousands of hours under their belts _still_ can't take them down in a reasonable amount of time!

I played for 3 years, then quit for 3 years and came back like a month ago, so seeing Kirin battles that used to take hours, and Dynamis Lords that were unbeatable, now to find that Kirin and DynamisLord can take like 2 mins... This is no different to me... I'm with the people who think there is a trick to it. I think, It's not that SE purposely made a monster that takes 18 hours, it's that players took 18 hours and still didn't win. I think it shows how players are willing to burn out themselves, not that SE wants to burn out players. And with what I've seen of how much what used to be incredibly hard, is now incredibly easy, no wonder SE puts in EVEN HARDER monsters...

everyone is stupid they look at 18 hours and OMG WTF SE what's wrong with you blablabla!!! let me ask you this when was the last time that you played for 24 hours not involving a HNM oh what's that? that's right there is people who play for 2 days in a row and is that SE's fault? if you ask me that's your own damn fault because SE controls the game not you life YOU decide when to play and when to stop not SE and i agree with those that say that there is a trick to this and the rest of you complaining at SE are you serious? I'v been playing this for quite sometime now and trust me its not SE that's wrong here its YOU THE CONSUMER! i play when i want however long i want... but i guess some people are just that stupid to give up their real life stuff for games are you one of them? anyhow i gotta go jesus you people are dumb! SE thank you for your hard work the games is awesome and yes people are dumb!

peace!...

can't wait to hear from you haters!!!

I still think there has to be an item that will cut things down alot. Sorta like with the CoP missions NMs/ Maybe I am just blowing smoke.

Ninesunz, I'm sorry for confusing game play for game play while killing a "boss", but in my terms they are both the same whether you look at it as game play or as killing a "boss" because at the end of the day its all game play. Put it this way what do you do in a exp party that lasts good 8-10 hours? you continuously kill mobs correct? ok having said that replace those mobs with the "boss" which in the end is the same crap you are stuck there fighting over and over again are you not? but i guess "game play" in your terms is defined different. PS: Im not bitching about this...

I think the blame lies with the players and SE in the case of PW. Realistically if I was in a fight with a boss that very little was known about and it lasted longer than a few hours with no sign of it ending any time soon, I think that's the point at which it's time to say f**k it an leave. But at the same time I find it incredibly hard to believe SE couldn't predict player's having to take that damn long to kill him. Obviously if there is a trick to kill him (which odds are there is) that decreases the duration of the fight significantly, then of course people aren't gonna know what it is right off. Why would SE make a guy that could even *potentially* take that long to fight? Sure the players should have called it quits alot sooner than they did but I'm sure those guys/girls thought every time they started getting him down low on HP they thought they'd finally killed him only to have him regen to full HP again and again. My point is SE must know how much time this guy would take to kill on average with whatever trick or tricks there are to him so why not just add in a killswitch-type thing? Like say he should take maybe 3 hours or something so make it so if you take longer than 4 hours he'll just instantly kill everyone? Kinda like the Snoll fight in CoP, if you take longer than 45seconds I think it is he does Hypothermal Combustion and blows the hell outta everyone, and even if you survive you still fail, unless of course you use the salt item or whatever to prolong the fight. I know there's a significant difference between those 2 fights but I think you all get the idea. It just seems to me like SE was a little irresponsible with this mob because while the players were ultimately responsible for staying in that fight for so long, SE are still responsible for creating a mob that even has the slightest possibility of taking that long to kill. Anyway you choose to look at it, this obviously isn't good press for SE and had something worse happened to one of those players, such as a seizure or something worse than fainting or vomiting, and it ended up causing a fatality or something, I'd be willing to bet there'd be alot more press around a story like that and I really doubt the news and general public would be on SE's side.

I would tend to agree with Wraice . I haven't been to Sea yet , but from what i read on this site AV seems to go into Kill mode causing a wipe since people havent figured out what the 2hr usage has to do with him . I am sure there is some way to Lock PW's form or remove a number of them from the fight , it just hasnt been figured out yet . How ever I feel that Square has a sort of a ' Bartender's responsiblity' in this as well , meaning that if a Bartender servers you when you are well past the limit they would be held responsible for your death , even tho you're old enough to determine your limit and chose to excede them . In this modern world that absolves all of responsibilty , especially of thier own actions , I wouldnt make sense for Square to make this , unless they miscalculated figuring people would either wind up wiping or giving up outright . The caliber of player of the Mentioned LS is obviously high if they have a high number of relic holders and they surpassed Squares intended expectations causing the fight to drag on in place of them Wiping . Thier High LV of Expierence , Godly Gear , High Organization , and Extreme dedication allowed them to survive past the point when the Average , and even the above avaerage players and LSs would have wiped .

You guys are kidding, right. It's a game. With an assault by that many people.. you're telling me they can't figure out how to take a break.

They made themselves obsessed. They made themselves sick.

AV and PW don't take that long. It is rediculous to think they would. Your just missing something. They are just too obsessed with being LEET, to realize they got it wrong.

Those NMs are meant to be ITG. It's the point of there existence. If you have to drag it on forever and still lose, then you are not doing it right.

Av used to be exploited all the time before they fixed it. And, they gave you a video of its defeat. Even hints.

It's trial and error. Stop giving the news a reason to bash video games, for the irresponcible actions of a few idiots.

If I am tired and not feeling good... I GET THE **** OFF, and go to sleep.

BTW... it's the headline on yahoo... wtf... someone had to tell the news about how bad a videogame was. Wouldn't have been more honest to say how stupid they were.

BLEH P.S. - I did read previous posts. There are a few I agree with. But, I don't see any of the community sites stating their lack of support for this group of dummies.

Yeah a lot of people think it's dumb. But, the sites we are members of aren't supporting SE. They are sitting silently, and letting a few idiots ruin the game for the rest.

SE speaking for itself, is completely different from it's fans speaking.

ppss try reading all the info before makin a flamin post calling other ppl stoopid . had you read all the posts , links and LS's posts you might see that the LS at the core of these wasn't bitching . That outside sources , like youre self , are turning this into a big deal . if youre just gunna throw gas on the fire , dont bother trying to be smart , it just makes you look all the dumber .

Regardless of whether AV, PW or whatever actually require a rediculous amount of time to defeat or not, the point is every player has a responsibility to stop playing when they feel the need or have to.

Obviously this LS ignored that responsibility in hope to obtain super awesome gear. Which in the long run turned into a fruitless effort far from being worth the sacrifice given.

As previously stated, NMs like Kirin used to be the hardest and strongest NM in the game. People would wipe to him all the time. Over time people slowly but surely figured out a strategy and effective method of defeating him. Now people slaughter him in 2 minutes flat.

In my opinion AV or PW is no different of a case. Simply one we have yet to discover within reasonable time.

If you plan on investing enough time in this game to attempt such a event, you better know by now that being able to simply beat it defeats the purpose of having a difficult boss. It is your responsibility to take care of yourself. not doing that makes it your fault. not SE. They made them for people who wanted to test themselves, not people who couldn't finish it and then complain that it's SE's fault. In my opinion 18 hours straight isn't enough to make someone that sick. I've done long hours without stop plenty of time, and yes i usually forget or can't be bothered to eat in that interval. The most that happens to me is i get tired.. You should of never bothered if you had members in your link shell that were unsuited for a long event. Another thing, There is a disclaimer saying they had no wish to see your social life and life outside Final Fantasy to suffer as a result. Funny thing is that comes up every time at the beginning of log in. about time to pay attention. oh and thanks for spreading your fail across all the web, now SE has a lot of explaining to do over you failures. I hope they suspend your account for being so juvenile about the fact they made a boss that you and your link shell simply can't beat so you go and blog about it.

Yet again, a reminder why the disclaimer is shown every single time you log on. It is indeed down to the players to exercise their will and desire bordered by their limits.

I haven't read the article in detail, but it sounds like PW kept on reviving itself when near death, and in defense of the players involved, I can certainly see the temptation to say "5 more minutes" or "just a bit more". However, as mentioned above, if it didn't work for the first 4 hours, why go for 14 more? This could have been avoided with a kill switch of some sort, but not under any circumstances, I wouldn't have foreseen ANYONE in this game to put their personal health on the line. SE has stated on couple occasions that they want players to think outside the box from time to time, but throwing up and such in front of the screen probably wasn't a possibility in their head.

I agree with Macora to certain extent. Yes, people were getting physically ill and such, but, while it isn't easy for me by any means, anyone that's pulled an all-nighter or worked a grave shift know what happens when people stay up for extended amount of time like so, and they should have decided accordingly, intermittently. In the end, it is about self control and discipline by the players, not their mothers/fathers/SE intervening.

There have been news in the past of death while playing a game too long, but I feel this case will be a bit different, seeing how the players criticized SE so openly. It is unfair that SE is getting this much negative press about this.

Not being critical, but just because there is a disclaimer mentioning to be careful doesn't absolve SE of anything.

How many times when you were in your late teen years in the United States of America drink underage even though you weren't supposed to? Even though there are disclaimers at EVERY venue AND legal implications for being caught with alcoholic content. The disclaimer excuse is moot.

This is just media taking a silly story and exacerbate what it means...don't blame the players, blame MEDIA.

Good try with PW though;;

*smacks PW with a brick*

Tellah's point is different, but it makes sense. Why talk about the disclaimer if everyone that plays have seen it at lease 50 times by now? I know I have.

I'm not gonna give my 2 bricks about the whole "who's at fault" thing, because its all about point of view. Some see its SE fault because they made the mob the way it is. Others blames the people that fought it for a number of reasons, a few that are really stupid and some that are not, but it makes no bit of difference.

I'm kinda surprise it took this long for the media to pick this story up and exaggerate it the way they did. I wonder when Jack Thompson is gonna show up?

. . .how did that ? get in there

Well, looks like SE got the message--they're dropping the difficulty of the NMs in question. Guess with enough of us flaming them, even SE's game development team can get the message. As far as the group that fought Pandy Warden being "stupid", all I can say is go read the blog of one of the players that actually fought in that battle before judging them. I did, and it was a real eye-opener. By the time they realized that (1) PW wasn't going down without a major battle and (2) it had been 18 hours, the adrenaline rush had worn off and someone looked at a clock--they only thought it had been a little while, they were so caught up in the battle. So blame SE for making their NMs too tough in the first place... Now if only we could get them to tweak a few other parts of the game that are a pain in the [CENSORED]...

I still like the fact that everyone seems to think that the NMs in question are going to be nerfed. What does King Arthro do if you don't kill him fast enough? 8)

Like they are gonna nerf them. You can tell they are gonna give them the If-you-don't-kill-me-in-5-min-I'm-gonna-one-shot-everyone-in-the-region ability.

I can't help but think of the Southpark WOW episode where Cartmann's mom had the potty pan ,(splat!)"That's a good boy...", but in all seriousness..

Coming from a person who has a lot of time but does not have the ability to sit for long hours due to a physical disability, it is MY responsibility to tell pt members -before- the game play starts, "Hey I can only do this fight for _____ amount of time and then I need to get up and stretch and rest, no ands ifs or buts I need to do this and will do this no matter what kind of battle we are engaged in.." Perhaps they did just that, I have yet to read all of the blogs. My point is though, it is not SE's fault if a player perceives a battle to last any amount of time and decides to spend that time fighting it. It is not their fault if any part of the game is too difficult for a person's lifestyle and such a thing is too hard to measure since everyone is different, like I mentioned in my own particular situation. In this time of many law suits and disclaimers even on toilet paper packages, it is unfortunate that SE even has to tell people that their lives are/should be more important than any plug in entertainment device. Our keyboards, monitors and controllers are all chock full of disclaimers and warnings about repetitive stress injury as well, there is no fault but to the person who decides to continue playing or using the device if it is being used for too long. If I don't have enough time to log in to the game and I forget to take my meds, it is my fault and no one else's.

On the other hand, I understand completely how pressure can lend to too much dedication especially with a LS with a reputation like that one, for kicking _ss on mobs out there. Perhaps more organization or rules about time spent during battles, within LS's can prevent this kind of thing. Like for instance, a health check on members before during and after ANY kind of duration of game play would help. It looks like this is a situation of finding out the hidden ways to defeat the beastie over time. I imagine if they nerf the beastie though, that people will then complain that there is nothing challenging in the game to do.

Either way, I hope those who did get sick are feeling better, and develop a system to prevent that kind of thing in the future, even an alarm clock every certain amount of hours to remind yourself to get up and eat can help.

-Vahl

Link that my friend provided for me:

http://ruken...m/17133.html

If anyone bothered reading their reports, they'd know that no one was actually "sick". It was all exaggerated for publicity. As for the previous posts, 18 hours IS a lot; there isn't any other boss monster nor arena(that I know of) from any other MMO that would last 18 hours. Also, simply playing FFXI for 18 hours straight and being in an NM fight for 18 hours straight is completely different. I highly doubt a person would be completely concentrated and have no AFK breaks during 18 hours of regular game-play.

As for some of Macora's responses... first of all you have probably never fought the thing, so you have no right to call that linkshell's attempt a failure. I also thought it was hilarious when you said they should have their accounts banned. Looking at their alliance setup, it's obvious that their first attempt took a lot of effort. Anyone would get frustrated after retreating from the fight at the 18 hour mark. The point of their blog was not to whine about it, it was to address the publicity and providing information for those who've yet to try it. If everyone got banned for posting information on NMs online, everyone on FFXIclopedia should be banned.

idk, i think it sounds pretty fun tbh... 18+ hours is a bit much yeah.. but honestly I wouldn't mind doing it, regardless of the "no life" approach people like to throw out there, regardless if the player is 16 or not, people have school and work(sometimes 16 year olds work yeah, if its summer time i can understand the no work all play for kids though but still) idk, i play for over 18 hours at a time and I'm a full time college student and occasionally work from here and there but doesn't stop me from playing, I play during class, and no I'm not failing any of my classes...

some people have this kind of time, it's not exactly for everyone so if you cant put the effort in doing it then don't, no one's making you, your Linkshell doesn't pay for your game, they can't make you do jackshit lol, if you honestly have time to do this more power to you, if you're tired then go to frickin' bed... if you're devoting this much time on something that may or may not drop then you should know your limits.

Just because these NMs can't be "beaten" (like by the average shell) as if "yet" doesn't mean they cant be beaten at all, things take time can't expect SE to just hand it over, and half the people that complain about it really doesn't even do this aspect of the game, "I wouldn't even do this for 5 hours" I seen some people post on threads, sometimes when you're doing things like that you tend to lose track of time easily, forget to eat cause it doesn't even cross your mind, it happens sometimes so I can see how they could possibly get sick cause it's not for everyone, but like I said, know your limits before attempting this kind of thing.

I don't find SE to blame for trying to make something harder for the more advanced groups that are infact out there. Like the shell said themselves they don't doubt it can be beaten they just don't know how to beat it yet. If people really stayed there for 18 hours without saying "Ok I'm tired" or "Can we stop this doesn't seem to be getting anywhere" then that's on them. (not saying they didn't)

(they shoulda had sleep shifts! lolol)

To be honest though, it's pretty impressive they lasted 18 hours.

Anyway, SE nerfing the mobs was bound to happen eventually surprised it didn't happen before PW came out when there was just AV. SE always has to make this game too easy making the newer players less effective.

Aht Urgan go!

"skillchain?" "wut?"

"Magic Burst?" "wtf we have a blm for? TP burn onry."

I miss oldschool stuff... Penta Thrust spam wru?(ubar TP return on WS's wru?) they gotta stop nerfing stuff and give us back the old kick ass stuff... been playing this game for 5 years, I'd like to see something they don't nerf for a change.

idk, it's rediculous to have a NM take that long in all reality, but too bad it's not reality >.>

After reading Rukenshin's livejournal (part 1 and 2) linked above I can now see how they played for 18 hours. The nature of this NM is setup to make someone continue on going - as like climbing a mountain you always think that it is just over the peak!

If you read the journal you will see that the majority time is spent killing lamps - maybe if there is any trick it will make the lamps weaker/non-existant. All the HNMs seemed relatively straight forward to kill once the lamps are dealt with. Even without lamps though the fight looks like it would take 6-8 hours - if this is realistic or not I do not know - 3-4 of dynamis is enough for me in one sitting.

Finally I think for anyone to call these people "stupid" is not giving them due respect. They planned in detail, set aside a big chunk of time, understood the nature of the battle and the time it might take, had a successful battle plan (they got a long way into the fight) and executed it. Yes there were a lot of wipes, yes it took a long time, but they got further than anyone else (correct me if I am wrong). They knew what they were doing, they thought they were on last the form, and gave up when they knew it would take 5+ hours and a lot of wipes to kill this last form.

Give them the respect they deserve, and more for that fact that they gave up at 18hours instead of trying to kill that last form and really make themselves ill.

If you have not done already read the journal.

http://ruken...journal.com/

So.. As an example:

If I decided to change to a Lv.3 job and Kill Leaping Lizzy for some R/E Bounding Boots with a PL, and it takes me 5+ hour's to kill it with no H2H skill and almost 0-1 dmg per hit.. They should "weaken" Leaping Lizzy cause a few players Lv.1 couldn't kill her at all?

Hell, Let's take jobs 15 to 45 lvls BELOW the current lvl NEEDED to at least TRY and dish out some dmg on an HNM and all wipe after 382109328901 hr's and make SE "weaken" every one of those mobs cause we {/cry}'ed about it in blogs to everyone world wide.

Yea.. And While we're at it.. Let's just create a JP button too. <.<;

If NM's were that easy to kill in this game, I'll just quit now and go sign up on WoW. I play this game for fun and to be a challenge. Not a total bore. So while it IS bad for someone to play 18 hr's, its not SE's fault. You do what you want on your own time. Don't blame something on a company when it was YOUR OWN choice to make or decide whether common sense plays a key factor in your stupidity after 5 hours and you still haven't killed it..

I think my previous post didn't fully explain what I feel. SE and the playerbase need to both be responsible in handling what they do. Because the fight dragged on for so long it needed to have some sort of measure to prevent it from dragging on after X amount of time. Now that it has been brought up, SE is stepping up to the plate to deal with the issue. People who are criticizing the players who took part in the event should be ashamed, because no one in that fight has said anything negative, at worst they said "damn, we just wasted a lot of time." Again, I point out that the only people really complaining of this are people like us, who have only heard of it, but haven't done it.

I completely understand how awesome and incredible the players were that took on this ZNM. Some people might call it stupidity and lacking of any common sense to fight one of the most challenging and rewarding fights (this comment is not aimed toward any one person, but to all the negative people). I call it adventuring, working hard, and I thank them for the incredible amount of output from the LS alone for being able to make such an extensive write-up of the fight. It is people like the ones who fought PW that help create this wiki, and yet there are people who choose to call these hard working players noobs, stupid, etc.

SE did not say they were going to make high level NMs such as AV and PW easier (as mentioned in posts above), but that they were going to implement methods, "where a decisive outcome may be reached within a shorter period of time."

If SE decides to show a video of the "weakness" for PW or AV, I think players should be able to strategize from that point on. I don't think it should be an option to weaken the Greatest challenges of the game. But make players more aware of strategy from maybe a few videos shown here and there. What probably would make me sad though, is if it was killed finally after 18 hour's and get no drop lol. I know there's NM's and ZNM's out there that have a -% drop rate, but for an 18hr fight like that, I think that SE should increase the drop rate for something as powerful as PW/AV

In the end, the choice of play time is left to each person. How can anyone blame SE for people playing until the pass out, heck, I've played with people who have passed....albeit, usually from what they drank, but still.

I have been involved in a 5+ hour boss fight and would not want to plan to do it again as the time v s. rewards are just no there.

Ultimately with PW, no one needs to fight him for so long as BtL did. If a number of attempts to beat PW fail and the player base talks to SE then more information may be provided similar to the video for AV.

I like the idea of a mean @$$ boss out there, who ever said that every mob must be defeatable?

It is not SE's fault, it is the players. Nerfing happens and will happen again to appease the player base.

Bottom line: I think having boss fights that take 3-4 hours is completely acceptable as it makes a win an accomplishment. An intentionally developed boss fight that requires 18+ hours, unreasonable (key word being 'intenional').

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Problem is, spending 18 hours at this, was it the correct way or 'we can't figure out the correct way so we'll go with this'. Well, you can spend 18 hours whacking away at just about anything if you go about it the wrong way.

Could also mean SE meant for the fight to be unbeatable until they want it to be. Granted, I think they need a good slap in the head for doing that but they could have.

Now they've come out and said "AV was meant to be 18 hours long" ... yeah, they need a good kick in the nuts now. It's a damn video game; we've killed most our free time away just getting to 75 and capping off merits. Not counting standing around doing nothing camping stuff, for a chance at fighting it, for a chance at getting a single item to drop ... lolDring/ridill/thf knife, etc ...

There needs to be a line between "challenging/rewarding" and "plain stupid/waste of time" ... SE doesn't seem to know the difference though. Have fun with your 18 hours, hope it was worth it~

instead of nerfing... how bout un-nerfing all the jobs they've nerfed to the orig and than just upping the other jobs to equal them so like RNG will be like it was never nerfed... and same as BLU and the others... im sure thatd kill out the 18hour fights probaly =) and if that doesn't work than up all jobs more!!!! lol

Did i just read 76 comments omg Im sleepy what time is oh crap no way well heres 77 for the next mess who does same thing as me

#1 People who are complaining about AV here.. S.E released a Film that no one can figure out its not their fault we haven't worked it out

1. 2 PW is new and just Like AV I'm sure there is some way to Defeat it without taking 18hours people are just jumping to this conclusion because 1 linkshell got up there and failed. look at what happened when ixion came out. people didnt know how to get his HP shown... We've mostly all played this Game for 4+ years we should know SE likes to throw this shit at us!

It is beyond ridiculous that one group spent so long trying to defeat it. It is even more ridiculous that it spawned all of these new articles. So now, SE has to enforce limits on bosses in the game because a few select individuals didnt have the common sense to limit themselves?

I aggree with all of you make good valid points I wouldnt mine been in an 18 hr fight I usually cant even find a party anyway tho. LOL

Here's what SE should consider. Any single target monster

that progresses longer than two hours should stop at a given time length and start a CS. At which time you're given the option "Like a Nyzule Isle disc per say" to save your progress and come back at a later time. I know what you're thinking. Weakened will come back full hp, people will purchase new meds and it will be kind of unfair to the monster? This may alter the fight. Deal with it SE. We would like to own the items we pay monthly to farm. Think back to older versions when we had Fenix downs,everything stacked to 99, 9000 HP. Whatever happened to allowing us that type of fun? Possibly they could give us Temp Key Items like a Besieged. None the less, this is completely ridiculous. Anything longer than 3-4 hours is too long in my opinion. Hemorrhoids (Do you have it?) (Please check it) If not, Carpel Tunnel anyone? Are you

down with the sickness? I'm not. Se you fail..

This is ridiculous. I can understand how some people may think it's too long but this is an OPTIONAL fight. OPTIONAL. Meaning you don't have to do it if you don't want to. This is just another reason for video game critics to bad mouth games and gamers. Things like this come as a surprise to no one because FFXI is a community and word gets around. Fast. You know what you're going up against when you enter into it so why the complaints? If everyone was getting sick, like they claimed, and not just looking for an easy lawsuit, computers and consoles do come with an off button. In FFXII, it took me 12 hours to beat the hell wyrm. Another entirely optional and lengthy fight but I did it. No complaints. Really, this is just stupid. If you can't take it, or don't feel like it, then avoid it. That's all. Pretty easy.

Um... actually i don't think SE want see peapole suffer, they actually want to take as much money as possible from you every moth :D. I liked a lot the example of the LL XD so i think is right what said Kekoa.. and other peeps about that obiouvsly there must be a trick to take down faster a mob like that.. SE should give more in-Game clue to how defeat them btw.. because Games like FF that takes a lot of time to play with and involve also social levers they create a system rock in the fountain even in RL that cause more probs than playing for example 12h to GTA o other off line games (in this case the fault is completly yours ^^)

What i meant is.. SE is not very smart by not making at the beginning some walls like the 2h Depop in the first place..

Sorry for my bad english D: