Talk:Calculating Weapon Skill Damage
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Multi-Hit WS
There is no mention on how multi hit weapon skills are calculated. Would you multiply base damage times 4 if it is a 4 hit? --JTimmons 21:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
yes that is sumthing that i havet been able to come to a definite answer... because there are WSs like rampage that say base dmg multiplier is .50 and since i myself have done 3K+ ramages in certain situations i find it hard to belive the whole ws is half normal damage, so it makes me think that it is .5 x5 =2.5 x reg hit . but then again WSs like cross reaper says dmg enhancer is 2.00, now if it follows same rules as rampage thats 2.00 x 2 = x4 reg hit ... but then see that damage vs spiral hell at 300% tp = 3.7??? w/e vs cross reaper at 300% is 2.5 x2= 5.00 over all yet i have seen much higher dmg from spiral hell than cross reaper but perhaps im just unlucky please if any 1 knows for sure let me know because its really bothering me ><
Sneak attack and/or Trick Attack enabled weapon skills
I think the formulas for weapon skills using Sneak and/or Trick attack for thief main should have the critical hit pDIF included instead of the normal pDIF.
Critical Hit On WS
"Only weapon skills that say "Chance of critical varies with TP" can have a critical hit within the WS without forced critical (i.e. Sneak Attack or Mighty Strikes). Base critical hit chance varies between weapon skills."
Am I the only one that finds this information false, I don't even believe the theory should be mentioned. If these other WS couldn't critical to begin with why would sneak attack and Mightystrikes work with it? I haven't yet to seen enough tests to even consider this statement a possible truth. Many weaponskills besides the "TP increases critical hit chance" are either elemental, or just a Damage Varies with TP. Taking a basic WS like blade Jin how come it can critical with 100% TP if it is proposed to have a 0% critical rate at 100%. Another Example is Dragoon's jump which is considered to have a mod like a WS, I'm absolutely possitive that jump can critical. Lastly Weapon Skills seem like normal hits that take Stats into consideration, I really do disagree with the first statement, being that Damage varies with TP hits can not be criticalled unless with Sneak Attack or Mighty Strikes, Instead the chances of it Criticalling may be lower. Also almost every Multi hit Weaponskill is either TP = Critical or Accuracy rate bonus, It is easier to get a critical hit out of 3-5 hit WS opposed to a 1hit WS. As well to confirm that a multi hit WS with TP boost Accuracy unless someone has repeatedly only hit 1 hit for the same amount of damage numerous times, It is almost impossible to calculate wether a WS with TP:Acc is not effected by Critical hits.
Anyways the point is, without evidence i don't see why this statement exists.(--Tenchikurai 23:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)) R.P
As far as I know, the reason for this conclusion is because there hasn't been one single positive proof of a non-crit based WS scoring a crit in a controlled scenario, not even on LV 1 bunnies. Common sense says otherwise but there is no solid data that supports it. --JKL 06:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... again that would be really hard to prove that it doesn't, how do you prove if a WS can critical on a lvl 1 bunny with a lvl 75 character... or even a lvl 1 character. Also what would you consider critical damage? I must say for myself I have had Hard slash jump from 100-150 on uncapped Great sword, at similar tp intervals. One can argue that damage can be resisted, but wouldn't that make it more likely that it could in fact be a critical, as critical damage can be resisted as well. And critical damage isn't a set amount you can infact critical for 0 damage. I'm not a genius or anything, but how would anyone know that the WS can't critical stating this is basically stating that every time a thf uses TA dancing edge it should 95% of the time be the same exact damage. However I've never seen a thf dancing edge for the same exact amount... that and for multi hit WS the later hits don't follow the same rules as the first hit, or triple attack/double attack hits. i.e. the gorgets only work for the first. Anyways i could logically explain why i don't agree with the statement, I can be wrong, I just wanted to know how someone derives to that conclusion, but thank you for replying. (--Tenchikurai 17:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
I realize this is a bit of a necropost, but let me explain some of your misunderstandings. First of all, Jump can critical, but jump acts more like a melee attack with added damage from your Vit. Second, your statement about Blade: Jin having 0% chance to critical at 100tp is wrong. It has +0% chance at 100tp, which means your chance to critical is equal to your melee critical%. At increasing tp you get a bonus added to your base critical chance. Finally, it's very easy to prove if a WS crits or not. When fighting a level 0 mob, your cRatio(level corrected ratio of atk/def) will be capped at 2, so your pDIF range for a noncrit will be anywhere from 1.6 to 2.4. Critical hits add 1 to your pDIF and raise the cap to 3, so your pDIF range for a critical hit will 2.6 to 3. As you can see, these two ranges do not overlap. You can then calculate your WD, and go run some tests. If you EVER have a ws that does WD *2.6 to WD*3, then it crit'd. The reason why people say that weapon skills that do not specifically say they can crit in the text will never crit is because it has never been seen to occur, EVER. If a standard player has a 17% crit rate, he would see 1 in 6 WS's crit. Since over years of testing and partying, the current rate is 0 crits in a billion or so WS's ever done by everyone on the game, it's safe to say that these WS cannot crit. --Wraith Lakshmi 07:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
double attack
i have done some testing here and there not too extensive but i was wondering about double attack in WSs, see i been doing 300 tp SATA spiral hells when ever i am plying drk at events and whatnot but so far i havent gotten more then a 14% tp return on any of the WSs but i might just be unlucky, so i was wondering if any 1 had ever gotten a DA on a spiral hell WS with SATA, i don't know for sure but i don't recall a DA proc on spinning slash either at least when i used it with SATA i know you can get DA and TrA(triple attack) with SS because i had a friend with homam and algol who said he did a 3k SS /nin so i guess what i am wondering is if SATA or SA / TA individually cancel out the chance of a DA unless u use something like warriors charge or assassins charge but again my tests haven't been extensive at all i don't have tons of time to conduct them just when i goto farming with LS and stuff if any 1 knows about DA and SATA i would really like to know because i keep hoping to DA in SATA 300 tp spiral hell for like 3500 dmg XD
Yes, Double attack can proc on any WS as long as you have the trait. For multi-hit WS, the first 2 hits can DA. It sounds like you are just getting unlucky, or maybe you are just missing when you are getting DA's. Keep in mind that the fTP on double attacks for ws are 1.0, so on Spiral Hell it will not double your damage, the second hit will only do 27.5% as much damage as the main hit. In other words, if your average WS is around 1000, the additional hit will only add about 275 more damage, for a total of 1275. And by the way, your friend who told you he did a 3k SS on /nin was most probably BS'ing you. I just did a quick calculation, and he would need at least 298 combined STR and INT in his WS gear to do that on a too weak mob with pDIF and fSTR both capped. So either he lied to you or he did that on a Qutrub, which take double damage so it doesn't count. --Wraith Lakshmi 08:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
