Talk:Corsair/Archive1
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I have to agree with my colleagues. COR is not just support, though that is the aspect it most excels in. Besides support, COR makes a fantastic Damage Dealer and Puller, with the marksmanship weapon skills and quick draw skills. By bolstering AGI, the Corsair gradually begins to deal the level of damage in common ranged attacks that compares to a Ranger, although without the job abilities a Ranger offers, it cannot fully deal the latter's damage ranges. However, by rolling with its abilities, he can help his party achieve more damage.
I believe that the COR should be treated just as such. He should back his marksmanship by subbing Ninja or Ranger, combining it with accuracy and agility boosting equipment and the biggest gun he can find. Instead of being passed off as another support role ability, he should be treated more like a Ranger meets a Bard.
I stand by the phrase: "The best defense is a strong offense."
Please unlock the page for editting. A Corsair is far more then support. --Greix 08:35, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
I really don't think COR soul purpose in a party is Support, otherwise why would they give them access to Marksmanship Weapon Skills and why would they give them Quick Draw which allows the to do additional Elemental Damage. The whole entire Idea behind Corsair doesn't seem to suggest they were meant for support, they were fighters and risk takers - Gamblers. Yes they are good support but I dont think they are simply meant to be support with the other Job Abilitys and Weapon Skills they are given. I mean did SE state that COR is meant for Support only?? I havent seen it, but then again I sometimes miss things when reading them. Any one else's opinion on this? --Nynaeve 07:09, 26 April 2006 (PDT)
I agree and both disagree to some your points. It does seem like SE has made COR such a versatile job that it is hard to actually define what roll it will play in a higher level exp. party's right now. Most signs point to this job playing a support function because of the AOE effects that he can give to the entire party and or specific groups in the party i.e. only to melee or only to mages. In comparison to BRD, which has already been defined as a support role, BRD's also have a wide array of AOE buff and support abilites. But can a BRD also function without a party? Some argue and say heck no and others like myself think why not?
A good way of determining the proper role in a party is to look at some of the jobs equipment and/or weapons they can use. For COR it looks like mostly melee gear with some mage armor too. Now just because it can weild a gun doesn't mean that's the only function of the job. As you pointed out in later levels COR will be able to "Shoot" an elemental card from they're guns. Does this imply COR should have higher elmental skill then possibly a BLM? I can't say what SE was thinking when they decided the abilites and actions for COR, but the options look so appealing that we could use this job as whatever we decided to use them as. Straight support, backup healer, DD, or puller. The options I think were ment for each player to decide for themselves. Unfortunately indiviuality does not play well in FFXI and the overall player communtiy will decide what role they want for COR in a party.
I think the main reason Corsair isn't really a pure support is because that would really limit their ability to improve themselves. The Rolls aren't affected by anything other than level, where as a Bard or Red Mage can improve it's spells through various stats. Not to say SE hasn't done something like that before *Cough Summoner*... --NeoSuplex 11:09, 5 May 2006 (CST)
If COR isn't a support job, what is it? Honestly, it only has B rank skill in any weapon, and I think we know what happens mid-end game to jobs with B skills *Cough RDM*... Anyway, having access to ranged weapon skills only emphacizes the fact that SE probably intended it as a support job. Without a RNG sub, COR's need to be a significant distance from the target to have any accuracy with these WS, so they aren't really going to be a front line job. The limited choices for weapons is more indicitive. At level 1 there are 3 weapons that COR can use, and 2 are Onion weapons. The third is Bronze Knife. Finally, COR gets a refresh ability at level 40. The other job with Refresh, and party buffs, and B rank melee skills is practically the definition of a support job.
Could COR function outside of a support role? Most likely. Would it be as effective there as it would in a support role? Not even close. How many parties have you had that sat around forever just waiting for a RDM or BRD to log on? COR is capable of performing support role abilities, and support roles are always in demand so it is a pretty safe bet that the community will decide it is a support role job. --Syeria 00:57, 2 May 2006 (PDT)
COR is a support job, but it's more Support/DD, while BRD is more Support/Mage. One minute between rolls and five minute duration means that COR has a lot more time to do damage than BRD does. --Valyana 08:29, 31 May 2006 (PDT)
I think people have a hard time thinking past plugging Jobs into 1 role only. It appears COR can be both a Support and a DD. A few other Jobs had 2 separate niches: WARs were designed to be DDs and tanks (not as good as PLDs though), but when NIN was developed as a tank, that aspect dropped. NINs are enfeeblers (what people suspect their original intended role was), and there's nothing stopping them from that, but they can also tank. Heck, RDM was designed as more than a mage; it could be a melee, and was given swords and En-element spells, but the player community, NA and JP only focuses on which Job can do x role best, so they were pushed out of that role (just like WAR pushed away from tanking in favor of NINs & PLDs).
From what's been posted, it seems COR can DD decently (not a part of the top-tier DDs, but a DD nonetheless), and is also a support job. Let's not typecast them and limit the range of possibilities COR can be played in. They carry a weapon for a reason. The 3 new jobs were designed with a great versatility (e.g. BLU's amazing variety of spells, PUP's diff puppet types), COR is a top tier general support (buffer [dice, cards] & enfeebler [card shot]) and second-tier DD from what I've read. Don't confuse second-tier with cannot-do-at-all or at least cannot-do-effectively. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 19:32, 31 May 2006 (PDT)
- I remember when reading the Brady FFXI guide (Ya, I know Brady sucks, but at the time I was a n00b) and they had stated/implied NIN were NOT tanks! Considering Brady was writing the "official" guide I would wager some of their information/assumptions were from SE... Just an example of job roles changing over time. But that aside, sure COR can do some DD. RDM can too, but you don't see us pounding on the mobs! Well, a few exceptions... I wish I could, but most ppls won't allow it. And I'd take a BRD over a COR b/c BRDs at least sub WHM for backup healing. COR just toss up their buffs and ping the mob for decent but not phenominal damage (adding to the mobs TP). Maybe I still need to PT with more to get a better feel for them, but right now I'd think a COR/WHM would be preferable to the common COR/NIN or COR/RNG. (Especially when I'm the RDM/WHM only caster in a TP burn PT, a /WHM is nice for those just in case situations, something COR can't/won't do) Ok, ending rant... Chernabog 07:45, 9 July 2006 (PDT)
- The main difference between COR DD and RDM DD is that an RDM doing DD is necessarily casting fewer (not resting for mp) and less effective (not using elemental staves) spells in order to DD. Sometimes that's OK, but usually it means they don't keep up with the buffs, debuffs and heals that the party is expecting. A COR, on the other hand, can only Roll once a minute, so DDing between Rolls doesn't reduce their support capabilities at all. And since COR's main weapon is ranged, they can DD from the frontline or the backline, depending on who they're rolling for at the moment. --Valyana 09:55, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
I have to say, I party reguarly with a COR/RNG who does excellent damage, occasionally pulling hate from the tank. Combine their rolls with the good damage, and you have an excellent addition to the party. A Corsair who isn't shooting the mob is really a waste of space. They don't need to gear up to modify their rolls, so that leaves only two options; gear up with tons of +MP and +MND gear for healing (a function inherent only to a subjob), or gear up with Ranged Accuracy and Ranged Attack equips and fufill part of the role they are obviously designed to fill. Sure, there can be uses for /WHM, like when you're fighting mobs that spam paralyze or silence, or other really debilitating moves, but in most parties where you aren't fighting those, the extra healing isn't needed, but the damage is. The roll's for accuracy and attack hardly compare to a BRD's madrigal and minuet, so they have to have another purpose to make up for just sitting around waiting for a timer. They can use guns (awesome) and the level 22 bullets (even better for their level) which combine for impressive damage. They can equip daggers, and more importantly, and archer's knife, as well as tons of other +ranged accuracy. A COR/RNG can equip a Gun Belt to pump their marksmanship skill up even more, and a COR/NIN can dual wield archer's knives for mostly the same effect. They can also fill the role of puller, if there isn't a better choice in the party already. Corsair is what Bard would be if Bard were a little less support, and a little more kick ass. --Chrisjander 09:57, 9 July 2006 (PDT)
Die Names
I believe the names of Dies listed should be the names of the Roll as opposed to the name of the Dice itself? It seems that this is intended to be a spell list (or JA list) more than a "consumable item" list. As such, I am renaming the list from the Die name to the Ability name. Feel free to revert, if I'm wrong. The fact that the old links pointed to redirects seemed to confirm what I thought. :) --Noname1122 00:59, 26 June 2006 (PDT)
Club Skill or Not?
The Category: Combat Skills page lists COR as having a Club Skill, but the box on this page does not. So does it have it or not? If it does, the Corsair page needs to be corrected. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 23:05, 30 July 2006 (EDT)
I don't think I have Club Skill as my COR but I can't check til I got home... --Nynaeve 08:33, 31 July 2006 (EDT)
- Confirmed -- COR does not have a club skill. (As a COR20/RNG10, I have 26 club skill (capped), far too low to be from my main job.) --Fhathead 03:03, 15 September 2006 (EDT)
- Sorry, He is right, I never posted to confirm this but they don't. --Nynaeve 14:34, 15 September 2006 (EDT)
Corsair/Bard? I've been experimenting with this combination in parties. So far, it's definitely not bad. I suppose some people are intimidated by the lack of focus as a healer or a damage dealer, but the addition of Foe Requiem, Paeon and Minuet hasn't harmed my party by any stretch. So far I got to level 15, but once I get up to 30, I'll be back with more input. Has anyone else been trying this? --Greix
