Talk:Hide

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Aren't puks both sight AND sound? So it shouldn't work on them. --Jopasopa 22:43, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

it works on them, but they aggro shortly after to sound if you don't move, much like undead. If you don't mind, I'll edit that now~ Dragonspight 20:05, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

Removed "Orcs" from the list of mobs that do not requre Sneak or Deodorize for Hide to take effect. Although they aggro by sight, many (if not all) Orcs track by scent. I found this out the hard way while lock-picking Treasure Coffers in Monastic Cavern yesterday. None of the Orcs that aggroed had pets. --Aasher 9:44, 20 December 2006 (PST)

-EDIT- I've been testing Hide out with the Rogue's Vest trying to figure out the duration that Rogue's Vest gives. So far, out of hours of using Hide every 5 minutes, the fastest it's worn off is 35 seconds. The fastest I've seen Hide wear off when not using the Rouge's Vest is almost immediately. (I threw up Hide and it began to wear off right away, lasting only about 20 seconds.) So far, my conclusion is that the Rogue's Vest gives about 30 seconds extra on Hide. The longest Hide has lasted for me with the Rogue's Vest is longer than 5 minutes. I was still hidden and not wearing off after the timer hit 0.00.

Contents 1 Elementals... 2 Tonberries... 3 Pets 4 Trick Attack 5 Tracking range 6 Wings of the goddess?

Elementals...

ok, I'm having a very tough time understanding this: A) in Castle Oztroja, I can hide from any yagudo *unless* it's a yagudo mendicant with their elemental pet. B) while farming thunder elementals in qufim, I can successfully hide from thunder elementals.

Do Elemental pets not track the same way their free-thinking brothers do?--Dragonspight 10:25, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Elementals and elemental avatars are not the same thing. Elemental avatars, as the name would suggest, are avatars, and thereby look out for their master. --Chrisjander 10:28, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Well, in that case, shouldn't Yagudo's Elemental be classified as avatars instead of Elementals?--Dragonspight 16:07, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I think he meant that they are not avatars in the sense that they're in the same family as Ifrit or whatever, but that they are pets of summoners. Whether elementals and avatars are in the same family is a whole other discussion. --Jopasopa 15:13, 18 January 2007 (EST)

The duratation of Hide varies very hard. The shortest Hide-duratation I had was 20 seconds and the longest was 2:30 minutes (both without the Rogue's vest). Maybe this information will be useful. --Unsigned comment added by Haitani.

I believe Rogue's Vest actually lowers the minimum, as well as increasing the maximum, duration. Many times, I've used hide, lost enmity, then immediately lost the effect of invisible, though Only with Rogue's Vest. With that said, the duration seems to span from 0 seconds to six minutes with the vest (it's lasted longer than its recast often) --Dragonspight 19:30, 14 December 2006 (EST)

"You can use Hide at any time during Besieged, regardless of enmity."

This is not true. I used Hide shortly after Sneak Attack meleeing Medusa and she spotted me. I believe this statement is just misinformation and that enmity "rounds down", so to speak, such that if enough people are sharing enough, like in besieged, you'll have no actual enmity of your own unless you deal significant damage. Removing that statement now.

Also, I'm editing the statements about SA/TA wearing off and notwearing off hide. It makes it sound as if the effects are limited to hide.--Dragonspight 23:51, 14 December 2006 (EST)

"This has not been officially confirmed-- but there was supposedly a case in which a Thief used Flee to run from a sound-pursuing mob, then used Hide, and lost all enmity; It makes sense in a way, but again, it has not been confirmed."

I'll confirm this, I have on several occasions escaped sound aggro mobs by using flee and hide, including the truesound fish in Golden Salvage.--bellannaer 12:01, 18 January 2007 (PST)

Tonberries...

Before about 10 minutes ago, I was under the impression that you couldn't hide from Tonberries, but now you can apparently. Was this in a recent update? Either way, I just tested it during normal conditions (No rain or any weather) and it showed you can hide from tonberries, so I'm adding it. I might even change the list to a table. Take them off if you find you couldn't hide from one.--Dragonspight 09:02, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Huh? Tonberries are on the list of enemies that you can use Hide to hide from without Sneak/Deodorize (unless they have a pet). --Jopasopa 16:08, 21 January 2007 (EST)

That's because I added it ^^ I'm sure this is from a recent update. I remember not being able to hide from tonberries before. Either way though, it wasn't listed; now it is.--Dragonspight 16:30, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Ah, I understand now. Also, I feel as if that list is missing some monsters? How about Lamiae and snolls? --Jopasopa 17:06, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Hmm, can you even hide from Lamiae? I've honestly never tried. And I suppose Snolls should be added, but most people can predict that with clusters and bombs being naturally hidable, snolls are too. --Dragonspight 13:58, 25 January 2007 (EST)

And I just spent some time looking over the list, and there are indeed a lot missing.. I could've sworn they were there before; ; Birds, noticably. --Dragonspight 13:58, 25 January 2007 (EST)

This site and somepage both say that they detect by sound, so either someone messed up and everyone copied (not suprising since most birds that aggro either have truesight and/or truesound, so it's hard to disprove it) or they detect by sound. --Jopasopa 15:03, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Both what? I know birds detect by sound for one from pulling (they link to sund, not sight). But I don't know what else you're referring to. If it's lamiae, then yes, that's wrong. Bu~t either way, it will all be right soon. I'm going on a large expedition to find out what every mob type tracks/detects by. THF/WHM ftw. --Dragonspight 15:52, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Old bump, but unless you're talking about some kind of bird I don't know about, this is incorrect. Birds (as in lesser birds, like Akbaba) link on sight, not sound. Plainly evident pulling in low levels in Tahrongi Canyon. I believe it also applies to Rocs as well. --Cutriss 20:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Pets

After a while of experience and many encounters with mobs' pets, I think I'll take this opportunity to officially state my opinion that all pets meet the following rules:

• They all have either true-hearing or True-sight
• They all link
• They only link with their master
• Other mobs of the same mob group, or a mob group that links with it, will link *with* pets.
• Pets drop only crystals and seals.

The first note would make hiding from pets under any circumstance absolutely impossible. In fact, sometimes I've even run far enough away from a goblin to lose its hate, while its rabbit still chased me. With that said, I'm assuming this is the cause of my confusion recently over yagudo's elementals. Also with it said, I think there should be a category for all pets, bu~ut I'll work on that somewhere else. Edit: signature thing... yeah... --Dragonspight 09:18, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Pets might all just detect by sound. I think I remember the Brady guide having all pets detect by sound (even elementals and I think stuff that were normally sight were put as sound). Yes lolBrady but they may have had a point. There's no real way to prove it since I don't think any pet aggros on its own, asides from stuff that share hate with a "master" but are not technically pets (for example, I *think* Pining Abazohn's Qutrub Forayers share some kind of enmity with him). --Jopasopa 15:09, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Pets do not detect by sound. I killed a gigas beastmaster without its sheep aggroing just the other day. He moved to a poisition and turned back just enough that the sheep couldn't see him from where I attacked him. After I killed him, the sheep promptly fell to the ground. Also, I've noticed that you can flee entirely away from things that track by sound (weapons, in my example) and use hide. You still get the "Dragonspgiht hides!" message, even though they're following you. If you run away from something with true-tracking and use hide, you don't get any message at all, though they still follow you. This is what I experience with pets. --Dragonspight 07:34, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Trick Attack

"If you only hit the mob under Trick Attack you will not gain any enmity, and can continue to use Hide SATA every time Hide is up and you have TP. However, with Dual Wield this only works with a Weapon Skill, as normal offhand attacks are not affected by Trick Attack"

For one, this should go in the trick attack article, not Hide. Hide does not affect this fact one bit other than what was already stated in its parent comment. For another, the dual wield portion is false. Any hate from either hand is transferred. Also, sneak attack and trick attack's accuracy bonuses apply to both hands (test and proven using ninja mobs. SA/TA's accuracy allows you to go through the mob's shadows. when used with dual wield, both hands hit the mob.) For a third, The first fact is false. If you use trick attack and hit a mob once, then disengage, you get minimal enmity, similar to the enmity from an avatar of yours attacking a mob. After everything else dies, it comes after you. --Dragonspight 23:00, 1 March 2007 (EST)

The passage you quote was based on thieves talking about using Hide SATA on, e.g., Tiamat, and it working every time as long as they were careful to disengage after WS so they didn't attack again outside of Trick Attack and get hate. But I have no direct experience of this, so feel free to change it. --Valyana 14:55, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Tracking range

about the "user must first get out of sound tracking range (30'? less?)" statement... i thought aggro detection only comes in 8(sound), 15(sight) and 20(other) distance versions, where is this 30 from? --Kerah 01:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wings of the goddess?

What does this mean : Hide has less effectiveness in Wings of the Goddess Areas unless it is used with Flee.

I used Hide while fighting Peistes without any problem (without fleeing away from the mobs). So, what does it mean? I haven't tried to hide from an "old" mob family yet (I mean, a family that we already knew before WotG, that still exists in the present, for example Yagudo), but I'll post my results when I get to try it.

Please, whoever made that edit, explain what you meant exactly, thank you. Soily 13:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

My only guess would be this refers to the fact that some of the WotG mobs aggro to the use of Job Abilities (like Hide), so while Hide normally sheds aggro from sight based mobs, it would still aggro you because you used a Job Ability (and if you weren't running away with Flee, he'd hit you and drop your Hide). --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 17:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean, but it's not correct. I just tried it in Mount Zhayolm, on an Ebony Pudding. I used Sneak Attack to aggro a flan, I let it cast his spell then come to me, and I used Hide. As expected, I lost hate. It makes sense, since you use the ability first, then after that, the effect of the ability is applied and you lose all hate. Second test : I aggro'd a pudding with Sneak Attack, let it cast his spell, then I ran BEHIND 2 other puddings (since they also detect by sight, I made sure they didn't aggro me that way) and used Hide : Both puddings immediately turned around to face me, but they didn't even have the time to start casting, I lost hate right away.

I didn't try it on a WotG mob because I don't know which mobs detect JA's in those areas (and it's faster to just go to Mt Zhayolm), but I guess the results would be the same, for that test. I'll give it a try eventually, though.

Anyway, until the person who wrote this explains what he/she meant, I propose to remove that line because it's more confusing than anything, unless we have an explanation.Soily 20:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed Hide dropping hate on quadavs durring campaign (and only durring campaign). o.o They detect by sound. If anything, it's more effective. (Though they seem to be true sound and find me after unless they quickly find something else to aggro.)--Lordshadow 20:37, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Go for it, the line doesn't adequately explain what it means. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 23:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I removed the line. I also added some information about using Hide on Flans. Soily 09:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

--

just to verify, does SCH rain enhancement work as auto-deodorize to drop links when hide pulling on scent tracking mobs like orcs? found out the hard way that basic hide doesnt help link pulls when farming sothic rope pellets :( --Kerah 11:17, 11 April 2008 (UTC)