Talk:How-To Guide: Dancer
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I kinda wrote this guide in about an hour or so. If anything seems biased or wrong, please change it. If you're going to change something for the heck of it, please don't. Also, if it's not too much to ask, correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation is always appreciated. Finally, if someone would like to take the time to link words in the guide, it'd be much appreciated.
Stammer
Another possible subjob
I think you should mention that DRG would make another good sub from 20-60 or so. People don't give /DRG as much attention as they should. Here's why it would work. If you sub DRG, you will get these bonuses at these levels: 20 - Attack Bonus (+10 attack), 20 - Jump (an extra attack every 1.5 minutes), 30 - Wyvern Mantle (+6 attack backpiece), 30 - Wyvern Earring (+5% haste earring), 30 - Wyvern Targe (+1% haste shield), 70 - High Jump (an extra attack that sheds some of your enmity every 3 minutes).
This subjob's usefulness is diminished somewhat at 60 when SAM becomes a better choice, but that +5% haste earring remains one of the most useful earrings in the game for a long time.
Also, please mention that dual wield with /NIN lowers the TP you gain per hit. Not many people seem to realize this. Overall, if you dual wield you should gain about as much TP as you would with a single weapon. Therefore "greater TP gain" is not a valid reason to /NIN. I know you didn't say this, but I've heard it enough from others that I think it warrants some attention.
Hala_Basinah 23:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Re: Another possible subjob
Thanks for the idea for Dragoon. I think it would work primarily because it doesn't have a set support job yet. The only problem is the Wyvern Earring is incredibly expensive, but other than that, the Jump would help with TP quite a bit, especially for getting it right off the hop. Don't Dragoons get Accuracy Bonus at Lv.30 too? That would make it even better post-60.
I fully agree with the whole /NIN lowers TP gain per hit. In fact, I don't like Ninja as a support job for a lot of main jobs (especially Blue Mage), and that's one of the reasons. People overlook the fact that they reduce TP gain by the 10% which makes up for the reduction in delay by 10% with it on. That 10% makes up for the animation time with attacking with two weapons. I will add both. Thanks for your contribution!
Stammer 19:00, 26 November 2007 (CST)
- The other side of the coin though is that you can equip a second +acc knife with /nin, which CAN increase your TP gain by virtue of more hits connecting. You have to look at all the factors. --Toksyuryel 20:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Re: Another possible subjob
Looking good! But the Accuracy Bonus trait from /DRG won't do much for DNC since DNC already get their own innate Accuracy Bonus at 30 and the two don't stack, so I think it probably shouldn't be mentioned. It's sad, but there it is. Hala_Basinah 08:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
War Sub
May want to mention double attack on /war at lvl 50 DNC (25 WAR). It is a 10% activation rate, and each time it goes off, it does give more TP.
As to /nin, I personally subbed nin on thf b/c it allowed me to stack stat boosting weapons (like republic dagger and federation kukri). A DNC/NIN can use 2 Mercenary's Knives at lvl 20 for Acc +4. I think nin has higher dex than war, but I might be wrong. Although the job is too new to really tell, it appears, to me at least, that hitting the monster is more important to DNC than hitting hard. --Atalantia 23:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Re: War Sub
Fully agreed. I'll change that too, thanks!
Stammer 17;30, 27 November 2007 (CST)
Testing jobs with multiple accounts
After testing the job with variable races. It is clear the dexterity given is higher with this job as well as other stats. Side to side as a Mithra and Elvaan dancer, The Elvaan had no issue gaining TP and at times did so faster. One thing that you will not, even with equal gear, is additional damage maintains steady HP drain. IT seems the harder you hit the higher the HP drain. At lower levels the Elvaan was able to maintain steady 3-5 Hp drains per strike while the Mithra seemed to average 2-4 per strike (Drain samba I). This still applies to Drain Samba II
On the Elvaan I am able to maintain a high supply of TP and tend to tank out enemies longer then some races other then the Galka. This is very handy. Thinking of Dancer as dependent on Dex and AGI is not correct. This job is very playable by all races. Making comments that Mithra or Taru have advantages in landing strikes over other races is not correct and after many of us testing it the races seemed fairly equal in most areas. Merits may balance the races out even further.
Sub job testing is still in the process. Early on I foudn MNK and H2H to be the easiest for soloing, and most people used it till 20 before changing to NIN as the sub. Sam can be helpfull at mid to higher levels but most still use NIN as the sub of choice where they find themsleves needing to tank out damage while they cure party members or themselves while tanking out damage. SAM does aid in TP levels. I have yet to use DRG as a sub but will give it a try since it is plenty high enough.
Re: Testing jobs with multiple accounts
Thanks for the large-scale contribution! I didn't know Dancer was a very DEX-heavy race, but I was aware that you do need to continually land hits. That really helps! Thanks for the changes, and I hope you and others continue your support of the "How-To" line of guides I'm preparing for each job. Dancer and Scholar are still new, so I'm not 100% sure on how they work, so any contributions really do help.
--Jessie 19:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Mithra dancer
I am currently sitting at 42 dancer I found that 1-15 monk sub worked great but at that point I was more able to find my place as a tank roll position because of my healing abilty to grab hate to the point where SAM and MNK could not pull the mobs off me so WAR sub often was more used by me. It is quite easy to see that steps require accuracy so found a dex build beneficial and at 20 I changed from H2H to dagger and back periodically simply for the accuracy on the daggers. Around 30 sushi seemed to make an extremely noticable difference and you get the accuracy bonus which makes steps a lot nicer. Drain samba 2 was extremely nice appearing to drain up to 25 at times and at 40 upon getting reverse flourish I seemed to be able to Weapon Skill more making me focus on TP and Accuracy over my small pokey poke attacks, so far I find that a dancer has a decent evasion and with evasion bonus /nin seems to make it viable for tanking but at the same time the flourish can grab hate but does not seem to hold it like provoke from war would. as a sub job finishing point gain is slow (1 point per success instead of 2) as well as I find after reaching a level 5 enfeebling on a step it will return smaller ammounts of points (returning 1 point instead of 2). I found by building my dancer toward TP gain and accuracy I am able to main heal my party quite effectively with only minor back up heals needed unfortunetely the dancer cures seem to be able to pull more hate than a normal cure would so I found /nin useful from the jungle on. even with Utsusemi: Ichi only with a dancers evasion if its capped along with parry and evasion bonus I have little trouble tanking if needed. --Yurimi 18:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
To clarify on DEX and AGI and race
I think you miss read what i said so i cleared it up. The job ISN't highly dex required and easily done by any job. Like i said, side to side with the Mithra I landed the same ammount of hits, had no issues landing as many steps and always had a steady 5 points for flourishes and plenty of TP. If you take a look at how Dancer affects races, you see it balances them out. When im a Elvaan dancer, my Dex and AGI are my second highest stat next to my STR and CHR. Different then other jobs where it is typically lower.
So if you think being Elvaan and Galka will hurt the job, you will be pleased to know it doesn't in anyway. Elvaans have no issue landing hits as well as Mithras, and tend to have a litle more damage on knives. Tp gain is never an issue (until higher where you need to start watching how many cures you spam). The effect of Elvaan and even Galka is they can take more hits when they cure the party more and draw more hate. Even sid to side to the mithra, I draw more hate from malee alone. Which yo uwould expect the mithra dex to cause them to land more hits, but it simply isn't true. So it's nice to be able to take a few more hits. However the mithra is hardly weak and can evade some hits helping it out a little.
Take a look at yoru stats before and after you change to dancer. You will notice the difference given to races to balance the job. This makes dancer great for all races regardless.
Follow-up On Recent Additions
Once again, I thank you for helping with all your tests. I'm glad to see Square finally made another job that works well with all races very equally. I never really expected Elvaan and Galka to play the job poorly, I just thought that with slightly lower dexterity, they would miss a bit more and lose out on a few hits' worth of TP. Though that appears to not be the case, I'm still partial to a Mithra's dexterity. And it will always seem that Elvaan/Galka can always increase their accuracy to prevent misses, and Mithra/Taru can just as easily increase their attack power to increase drain and overall hit damage. That's how I see every race working with every job class. It's like I always say for people asking me about Paladin, there's just two different spectrums. For Paladin, it goes to a more MP/evasive end (Taru/Mithra) to the HP/defensive end (Galka/Elvaan). Likewise, Dancer seems to go from a drains/damage end to an accuracy/TP end. Though from what you're saying, the spectrum isn't as broad and needs less stat-boosting gear to equalize the pros and cons. Next time you make an addition, please put in four tildes at the end so we can see who you are and when you posted, 'cause this credit needs to go to someone!
--Jessie 20:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Made two minor edits...
On the Trance and Jigs sections, just to clarify that Jigs do not, in fact, consume TP. Hala_Basinah 17:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
BST as a sub-job
A lot of BST are checking this out as a sub-job because of it's high CHR. That would mean that using BST as a sub-job would be viable too. It would add CHR to your Waltzes. It might not add to your damage output but your pet would be doing more of that, letting you save-up TP for fighting T/VTs. --Ctownwoody 22:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the support job idea. I got it down now. ^^
--Stammer 23:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Food?
I just checked all the guides listed and none of them mentioned anything about the type of foods a DNC would eat. Would it be typical melee food? Meat? Sushi? Defense? Zareth 18:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I've never really been all that huge into food myself and have only used it when the situation calls for it. For a Dancer, I hear Jack-o'-Lanterns are extremely useful because of the Accuracy+ and Evasion+, which is largely helpful in lots of situations. For around Lv.40+, you might want to move to more specialized food for the situation. Use Evasion+ for tanking, and either Accuracy+ or Attack+ otherwise. Obviously accuracy on high-evasion mobs and attack on high-defense mobs. I think Sushi would do you well by 60+, though. As for the guides in general, while they are mainly made by me, they are still free-edit, so if anyone wants to add more detailed information about food or anything, they're more than welcome to add it in.
--Stammer 22:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Conflicting Info Edit
There was some conflicting information in the section regarding Trance. One sentence in the middle of the paragraph said that it did not affect recast timers, but a sentence at the end said it did (mentioning the reduced recast time of waltzs). I edited the paragraph to remove the sentence saying that Trance did not affect recast timers, replacing it with the sentence that talked about the lowered Waltz timers. --Nahara 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Must have overlooked that problem when I did my overhaul. Also thanks for the HTG:Ninja edit. --Stammer 00:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
