Talk:Level Correction Function and pDIF

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what does pDIF stand for? That should be mentioned on this page. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 19:09, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

the variable was introduced at the first time as pDIF (probably refer to percentage DIFference, but I'm not sure). I can just change it to f(atk/def), but I just like it the old way saying it. A variable is a variable anyway.

on "what is pDIF?" question, I think it's clearly explained on the first sentence on that section--VZX 20:55, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

Well, then "percentage DIFference" should be listed on the page. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 22:07, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

I've actually always thought about it as "Physical DIFference" as opposed to "Magical DIFference." --Ichthyos 11:42, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

I noticed something interesting the other day while testing Beast Affinity: while Carrie and the EM Steelshell were beating on each other they tended to hit for one number more than others. From the pDIF graph I kind of expected that in the att/def = 0.5-0.8 and 1.5-2.0 ranges, but in this case they had hits both higher and lower than the 'mode' damage. This suggested to me that even in the att/def = 0.8-1.5 range, pDIF = 1 has a higher probability than other values. --Valyana 14:37, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

This is something I have noticed a lot when I use my parser to construct damage frequency charts. Huge spikes of frequency at exactly 1.0 pDIF. --Aurikasura 20:30, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

I have two questions about this, and those questions are <Huh?!> and WTF?!--Unsigned comment left by Alamond

Something seems odd about critical hits adding +1.0 pDIF to your damage. There isn't a mode for critical hits when your attack/defense ratio is around 1.0, but the mode for regular hits (pDIF = 1) shows up 1/3 of the time.

It may be possible that instead of adding +1.0 to your pDIF, a constant value is added to your att/def ratio similar to the level correction thing.--JKL 02:05, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

How is it that this page doesn't include a modification to the formula by your Combat Skill rating? Or is that shown somewhere else?--Mooch 11:18, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

To what modification are you referring? I've never used combat skill in (melee) damage calculations, mostly because "attack" is already shown in the equipment screen. --Ichthyos 11:36, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Oops, brain had shut off for a bit.--Mooch 15:57, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Mode

From looking at the graph, I suspect that in neutral def pDIF=1.00 3/8 of the time, rather than 1/3. When neither max or min pDIF are fixed, the range is 0.8, but in the middle it's only 0.5; I suspect that the other 0.3 of normal range are squeezed into pDIF = 1.00. --Valyana 21:57, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

If this is correct, mean pDIF in the cRatio=5/6-6/5 range could be calculated by (1.2*cRatio+1.2*cRatio-0.5)/2*5/8 + 1*3/8 = cRatio*0.75+0.21875

mean pDIF in the cRatio=1.25-1.5 range would be more complicated, as the mode gets less likely as cRatio rises. I believe that the formula would be 0.9*cRatio*cRatio - 1.5*cRatio + 1.625

note that both formulas give the same result for cRatio = 1.25. --Valyana 23:04, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

(1.2*cRatio+1.2*cRatio-0.5)/2*5/8 + 1*3/8

That means other value than 1.0 is distributed evenly? Are you sure about this?--VZX 01:51, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Sure? No, it's just a hypothesis, but I would be surprised if the other values were not evenly distributed. --Valyana 08:41, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Now I think about it again... why mode is getting less likely as cRatio rises from 1.25 to 1.5? and what formula do you use for getting avg on that region? I can't think anything that makes the avg rises quadratically. I thought it's just a simple linear combination of pDIF=1.0 and other range.--VZX 12:51, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

I expect the mode to get less likely between 1.25 and 1.5 as the range between min and max pDIF widens: my mental model is that the server rolls a random number between 0 and 0.8 and adds it to min pDIF for the current cRatio. If this gives a result higher than max pDIF, we get the mode instead. But again, this is just a hypothesis. --Valyana 00:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I've recently test some blue magic coefficient for each spells. Since the physical blue magic also use the same pDIF function. I guess it's still valid to show data from the test.
Here's the ratio of mode/total sample for each level crab:

• Head Butt:
  • Lv61:14/35 (40%)
  • Lv62:12/39 (30.77%)
  • Lv63:16/39 (41.03%)

--VZX 03:02, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Forgot to add another from Delekii's (as 75 BLU) test against Lv75 Steelshell:

• Head Butt:
  • 20/59(33.90%)
• Sprout Smack:
  • 31/73 (42.47%)
• Grand Slam:
  • 9/35 (25.71%) <-- low sample number

--VZX 03:07, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

we really ought to update this with (at the very least) max non-crit and crit pDIF values for 1h and 2h weapons post-2h update. we should also include a note about the suspected 1.0-1.05 random modifier (i can probably get a link to testing from starfox or from some google magic), since it interferes with actually determining the caps (e.g. i've told people that 2h NQ hit pDIF caps at around 2.7, but if 2.7 is the "observed cap", the actual cap would be around 2.571 if the 1.05 random mod exists). i don't want to get too deep into the business of wiki editing, so i'm trying to start this move forward here on the talk page. --Bowser 08:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I did some max crit dmg on lvl 1 mobs and also noticed the max pdif * 1.05 increase. results are posted here http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62258 --Kroot 15:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

calculating an unknown variable using the damage equation

hey all... i've been trying to calculate the defense of the automaton using the damage equation. i've been going into PVP so i can have a maximum controlled environment for this test. so i know the str and vit values for the attacker and defender, so fStr is easy enough to figure out. i also know the levels (both being capped at 40) so the level correction function = 0. the problem i'm running into is actually deriving the def out of the pdif function. since the only equations posted are min/max... i was wondering how you would go about getting one from the average damage?

New pDIF calculations

I put a note into this page letting people know that these equations are outdated. New pDIF cap appears to be 2.7, and crits are over 3.0 now. As far as I know, the new equations have not been found yet. Also, I'm not sure if the new cap just applies to 2 handed weapons, or if the old equations still work for 1 handed weapons, some clarification is required --Wraith Lakshmi 22:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about other jobs, but on MNK i found that cRatio caps at 2.064 now, and crits caps on 3.15 instead of 3.0 now, the rest remain the same. Always get correct results with those numbers when parsing. --Sedosan 14:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

New pDIF Caps Testing

On Lv0 Mobs:

Melee Damage with Warp Cudgel (DMG:15)
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Kegsay                 5401  100.00 %      101/1   99.02 %     37/58    49.05     21     65/75   70.33   20.79 %
DAMAGE = 24 * pDIF

Melee Damage with Lady Bell (DMG:1)
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Kegsay                 1954  100.00 %      101/4   96.19 %     14/22    17.70     20     24/28   26.00   19.80 %
DAMAGE = 9 * pDIF

Melee Damage with Brass Rod (DMG:8)
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Kegsay                 7932  100.00 %     226/11   95.36 %     25/39    31.88     47     42/50   47.34   20.80 %
Note: Tons of hits because M.Hi was suspected to be 39, but took that long to prove it, was 38 before.
DAMAGE = 16 * pDIF

pDIF Max is 2.45 for 1H.
pDIF Min is 1.57~1.58 for 1H.

Theoretical Melee Damage with Martial Wand (DMG:35) using these values:
Min Melee = 72
Max Melee = 112

Melee Damage with Martial Wand (DMG:35)
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Kegsay                41644  100.00 %     397/19   95.43 %    72/112    93.34    107   122/144  136.21   26.95 %
DAMAGE= 46 * pDIF

Proven. (For pDIF = capped and fSTR = capped) --Kegsay 22:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

... Continued these results, since they limited to low ranked weapons, which means large pDIF possibilities revealing wrong with higher ranked weapons damage. Also some of those weapons were missing values, which has been completed below:

Targeted mobs: Wild Rabbits & Tunnel Worms, East Ronfaure; also Gigas(non-MNK) & Weapons Qufim
Tests done under capped conditions, i.e. with fSTR capped and cRatio=Ratio=capped (no level correction since all mobs lower level than tester).
Rank=~Floor(WeaponDMG/9)
BaseDMG= Floor(WeaponDMG + (Rank+8 ) = Floor(WeaponDMG*(10/9)+8 )
PDIFmin = DamageMIN/BaseDMG
PDIFmax = DamageMAX/BaseDMG
PDIFcritMIN = DamageCritMIN/BaseDMG
PDIFcritMAX = DamageCritMAX/BaseDMG
used triple decimal precision for each pDIF range, and also various jobs with way enough STR and attack to be in capped situation.

Rank0: Ibushi Shinai (DMG=1)
BaseDMG= 1*1.11+8 = 9.11 ~ 9
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
284/14   14/22    23/28
PDIFmin = 14/9 ~ 1.556-1.666
PDIFmax = 22/9 ~ 2.445-2.555
PDIFcritMIN = 23/9 ~ 2.556-2.666
PDIFcritMAX = 28/9 ~ 3.112-3.222

Brass Rod (DMG=8 )
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
226/11   25/39    42/50
BaseDMG= 8*1.11+8 = 16.88 ~ 16
PDIFmin = 25/16 ~ 1.563-1.624
PDIFmax = 39/16 ~ 2.438-2.499
PDIFcritMIN = 42/16 ~ 2.625-2.687
PDIFcritMAX = 50/16 ~ 3.125-3.187

Rank1: Warp Cudgel / Kaiser Sword (DMG=15)
BaseDMG= 15*1.11+8 = 24.65 ~ 24
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
562/19   37/59    63/75
PDIFmin = 37/24 ~ 1.542-1.583
PDIFmax = 59/24 ~ 2.459-2.499
PDIFcritMIN = 63/24 ~ 2.625-2.666
PDIFcritMAX = 75/24 ~ 3.125-3.166

Rank2: Garuda Dagger (DMG=19)
BaseDMG= 19*1.11+8 = 29.1 ~ 29
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
862/50   45/71    76/91
PDIFmin = 45/29 ~ 1.552-1.586
PDIFmax = 71/29 ~ 2.449-2.482
PDIFcritMIN = 76/29 ~ 2.621-2.655
PDIFcritMAX = 91/29 ~ 3.138-3.172

Rank3: Thief Knife (DMG=28 )
BaseDMG= 28*1.11+8 = 39.1 ~ 39
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
260/16   61/96    103/122
PDIFmin = 61/39 ~ 1.565-1.589
PDIFmax = 96/39 ~ 2.462-2.487
PDIFcritMIN = 103/39 ~ 2.642-2.666
PDIFcritMAX = 122/39 ~ 3.129-3.153

Martial Wand (DMG=35)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
397/19   72/112   122/144
BaseDMG= 35*1.11+8 = 46.85 ~ 46
PDIFmin = 72/46 ~ 1.566-1.586
PDIFmax = 112/46 ~ 2.435-2.456 [b]get 113? Can't test since i don't own that weapon[/b]
PDIFcritMIN = 122/46 ~ 2.653-2.673
PDIFcritMAX = 144/46 ~ 3.131-3.152

Rank5: Woodville's Axe (DMG=50)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
590/29   98/156   167/198
BaseDMG= 50*1.11+8 = 63.5 ~ 63
PDIFmin = 98/63 ~ 1.556-1.571
PDIFmax = 156/63 ~ 2.477-2.492
PDIFcritMIN = 167/63 ~ 2.651-2.666
PDIFcritMAX = 198/63 ~ 3.143-3.158

1H Conclusions: PDIFmin = 1.566-1.571 PDIFmax = 2.477-2.478? PDIFcritMIN = 2.653-2.655 PDIFcritMAX = 3.143-3.152

PDIFmin =     1.57
PDIFmax =     2.478
PDIFcritMIN = 2.655
PDIFcritMAX = 3.15

Rank0: Relic Bhuj (DMG=1)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
319/11   16/24    26/28
BaseDMG= 1*1.11+8 = 9.11 ~ 9
PDIFmin = 16/9 ~ 1.778-1.888
PDIFmax = 24/9 ~ 2.667-2.777
PDIFcritMIN = 26/9 ~ 2.889-2.999
PDIFcritMAX = 28/9 ~ 3.112-3.222

Rank3: Jupiter Staff / Zaghnal (DMG=35)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
947/39   85/126   132/144
BaseDMG= 35*1.11+8 = 46.85 ~ 46
PDIFmin = 85/46 ~ 1.848-1.869
PDIFmax = 126/46 ~ 2.740-2.760
PDIFcritMIN = 132/46 ~ 2.870-2.891
PDIFcritMAX = 144/46 ~ 3.131-3.152

Rank5: Orc Piercer (DMG=48 )
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
264/23   114/168  176/192
BaseDMG= 48*1.11+8 = 61.28 ~ 61
PDIFmin = 114/61 ~ 1.869-1.885
PDIFmax = 168/61 ~ 2.755-2.770
PDIFcritMIN = 176/61 ~ 2.886-2.901
PDIFcritMAX = 192/61 ~ 3.148-3.163

Rank7: Iron Ram Lance (DMG=70)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
418/21   158/234  245/267
BaseDMG= 70*1.11+8 = 85.7 ~ 85
PDIFmin = 158/85 ~ 1.859-1.870
PDIFmax = 234/85 ~ 2.754-2.764
PDIFcritMIN = 245/85 ~ 2.883-2.894
PDIFcritMAX = 267/85 ~ 3.142-3.152

Rank10: Erlking's Kheten (DMG=91)
Hit/Miss M.Low/Hi C.Low/Hi
869/50   203/300  315/343
BaseDMG= 91*1.11+8 = 109.01 ~ 109
PDIFmin = 203/109 ~ 1.863-1.871
PDIFmax = 300/109 ~ 2.753-2.761
PDIFcritMIN = 315/109 ~ 2.891-2.898
PDIFcritMAX = 343/109 ~ 3.147-3.155

2H Conclusions: PDIFmin = 1.869 PDIFmax = 2.755-2.760 PDIFcritMIN = 2.891 PDIFcritMAX = 3.148-3.152

PDIFmin =     1.869
PDIFmax =     2.76
PDIFcritMIN = 2.891
PDIFcritMAX = 3.15

Those pDIF caps values match all tested weapons, unless someone show a screenshot with lower or higher dmg values than those listed (under capped conditions and same BaseDMG).

--Masamunai 11:29, October 1, 2009 (UTC)