Talk:Nanatsusaya
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Even when this Great Katana is found/added in an update it will only be good for show while hanging out in Whitegate. "Hey guys check out this wicked looking GK!" Other than that...don't waste your time arguing how this might be better...blah blah blah. SE obviously has no interest in adding in GK's that would actually be more useful than Hagun. Just "cool" looking GK's.
Obtainable
Following the proven method of "If you can translate it, you can obtain it", this item is presently obtainable in the game. The current method of obtaining it is unknown, and likely it will remain that way for some time.
As to why...
People are stupid. Why waste your time figuring out where to get a GKT when you can go for Hagun. This perception is what is going to make this GKT impossible to obtain.
I speculate that this drops from Dark Rider. Just because people haven't figure out how to handle him doesn't mean you can't kill him. Additionally, there is no such thing as a pointless NM, so claims that Dark Rider only appears to leave the Warhorse Hoofprint is a foolish notion.
Starlight 01:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- It's been edited to be that it drops off of Pandemonium Warden. Apparently, some LS in Remora discovered it or something. It's also rumored to have a 100% Zanshin activation rate, which is incredibly sick.--Jaxen 16:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
if you do the math, zanshin is still worthless even at 100% proc. it has to go through total swings, then 95% cap acc, than 5% of those swings are zanshin procs (at 10% its only a small portion of swings), again 95% acc cap on that, and you get your zanshin hit/miss rate....--Charles Guillen 04:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- Statements like "worthless" do not belong in mathematical determinations. While it can be said that this is worth less than many other Great Katanas, this weapon still has its uses. (And is not, despite your protests, worth less than nothing at all.)
- For those curious, however, A 100% Zanshin bonus would increase maximum accuracy from 95.25% (assuming default Zanshin) to 99.75%. --Taeria Saethori 04:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
For those who don't know, confirmed to drop from Pandemonium Warden, along with Dorje. Screenshots are here: http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/70637-drop-xiv-peacock-amulets-hauberts-all-white-mages-47.html Kincard 04:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Potentially superior to all other GKT
I realize that in saying this, I'm going to make everyone think little of me, but I've never cared about the opinions of others on such matters.
Speaking solely on this weapon, it has the potential to severely outclass all other GKT, including Hagun. While the martial effect of Hagun is a nice touch, against mobs of higher DEF, the potential of the hagun of severely reduced. If the primary form of damage on a Sam is there ability to WS hard, and fast, than this already outclasses it.
Knowing that the perceptions of people in the regard to Samurai Merits and gear, it is safe to say that no one is likely to believe a word of what I have to say about this, but here it goes anyway.
The most unappreciated merit for Samurai is Ikishoten, which boosts the TP gained from a successful attack from a Zanshin Activation. Fully meritted, it yeilds 15 additional TP per hit. After fully meritting Store TP, this means that a zanshin attack with a 450 delay weapon effectively returns up to 35 TP, depending on the amount of Store TP you have. This means that by forgoing Accuracy (which many samurai consider Taboo) one potentially has a 3 Hit WS Build. Rather than actively trying for a 95% Hit Rate, achieving 80% or so (meaning 1/5 attacks miss) is more idealistic. Gear that focuses heavily on Acc can then be substituted by gear featuring Haste, Attack+, Strength+, or even Dex+ (Since it only partially boosts Acc, and in turn boosts Critical Hit Rate). All of these other factors play into the target of higher damage per hit, which, in turn, boosts DPS.
Even if it's only one in 5 hits that Zanshin activates, look at it this way... With 3 Store TP Merits, and only a few Store TP pieces (Shinimusha Haidate, Hachiman Kote, Hachiman Sune-ate), I get 17% TP per hit.
17 + 17 + 17 + 17 + 17 = 85 TP in 5 hits if no attacks miss.
If I get 1 Zanshin activation that hits, one of those 17's turns into a 32. That means I'd get exactly 100% TP, and thus, can WS.
Now, naturally people want to have that 95% Hit Rate, because if they get that, then their standard DPS is concurrently maximized due to fewer misses. However, unless players are packing Parsers, many players will over-exceed this limitation, a primary case when a player packs on excessive quantities of ACC+. Because of this fact, many players are -lowering- their DPS potential in the notion that all the ACC is needed to achieve the 1/20 Miss Rate that many players dream of having.
There is nothing wrong with a 1/5 Miss Rate with a weapon such as this one. In fact, a 1/5 miss rate is almost completely ideal. Think of how much money you are saving, not to mention the potential boost to your TP Gain by simply granting yourself the 5/5 Ikishoten merits.
Mind you all, this is merely a perspective. The key word in all of this is -potential-. Yes, this means you need to approach SAM in ways that many people are not comfortable with (This is specifically stated at everyone toting Haguns and huge ego chips on their shoulders). However, if this item becomes more readily available (Highly unlikely due to being a PW Drop, and even if it did, there is nothing that will change the 100M Gil price tag associated with it), I feel it would be worthwhile to parse this weapon on a Ikishoten Samurai vs a Hagun Samurai (Gear being the exact same, Merits being the only difference), and see which of them is superior.
Just remember that Raw Damage doesn't mean anything if you can't do it frequently enough for it to matter.
Starlight 21:27, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
the above comment is sad. it fails to consider the low base damage of nanatsusaya, its unfortunate delay of 420, and the increased weapon skill damage from hagun's fTP bonus (which has nothing to do with high DEF mobs). it also advocates wearing sTP instead of haste in hands, legs, feet, which is stupid. it must be a crushing existence to be so starved for attention that one can't accept that a commonly used, effective setup in a videogame may be accepted because it's right, not because People Like To Follow Other People or some other weird neurotic thing. i strongly advise anyone reading this to avoid this starlight person as if they had a contagious, fatal illness.
--Bowser 19:12, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Bowser, you need to think outside the box more. If everyone stuck with what worked instead of "trying new things", we'd have PLDs and NIN only subbing /war(Cause people would think Provoke has more hate than flash/stun), we'd people "loling" at the thought of a SAM tank or subbing /DRG, etc. The point is, without people thinking of new things to try, we won't go anywhere. Petco 17:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Bowser, you're a Hagun puppet. In no way was that an educated response to Starlight's statement, let alone a superior one. All you did was over-simplify what he said and poke fun of him without really thinking about what he said. If you actually have some relevant information that the rest of us can use, by all means share it. Give us a comparison between the Hagun and Nanatsusayanotachi, from stats to damage output. But you don't really know those things, do you? You're too busy slobbing over Hagun's knob to really accept the possibility of anything being better. Fact is, only a handful of people have defeated PW and even fewer have gotten the right to use Nanatsusayanotachi. None of them have revealed much of it other than to say that Zanshin activates for nearly 100% of the time. So until someone who actually uses the GK decides to tell us more about it, most of the stuff Starlight is saying about this weapon is conjecture. But that's better than the crap you're spewing. How about getting off your high horse and actually giving us some real information next time instead of just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole? There are plenty of forums that you can do that on, so it's not necessary here. --Jaxen 04:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's just go with the simple and obvious conclusion: if you miss a lot, Nana is good, if you don't miss a lot, Hagun is good. Ok? -.- --ImperialPanda 19:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
great, we've got one genius with the "because new ideas can be good, the majority is always wrong" fallacy, and another who talks about how i must not know damage equations because i think hagun is better than this worthless piece of trash. keep fighting the good fight, snowflakes. there's some irony in the "hagun puppet" comment considering who i am, but it's gauche to say stuff like that.
--Bowser 20:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
uh.. maybe I'm mistaken, but you(Bowser) said "it fails to consider the low base damage of nanatsusaya," when the Nanat, has 2 more base DMG and 1 more DPS than Hagun(Nanat's 11dps to Hagun's 10dps).. that and you're a complete douche. You don't even back your comments with anything other than insults. Throw down some number or just some logic and you might actually be more effective at persuading people, the douche bag approach rarely works. --Grm88 01:45, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Bowser cracks me up. Typical Hagun jockey, has to defend Hagun vs. any attacks no matter how inane the logic might be, just to justify the reason why he paid 3M for such a piece of shit. To simplify this argument and why this Gk might in fact be one of the best GK's in the game lets list teh pro's and con's of both the Hagun and the Nana.
Hagun Pro's: More common than Nana, fTP bonus on most ws's, makes you blend in w/ rest of Sam population.
Hagun con's: 3M when the avg of all fTP bonus weapons are closer to 200k, common, fTP does not activate on Sekkanoki'd ws's or ANY Meikyo Shisui'd ws's, lower DPS and much lower dmg than many other lvl equivalant blades.
Nana Pro's: Ultra Rare (ATM), near 100% zenshin activation (~95%), +7 Str for WS Build, +7Dex for TPing Crit rate 2pts higher base dmg than hagun for dps.
Nana Con's: Ultra rare, no fTP bonus, can't be augmented (??? is this really a con?), 30 pts lower delay
While the 30 less points of delay means that on avg if you use similar gear btw hagun and nana for tping you will have at least one more swing to account for to get tp (accounting for the fact you have no Ikishoten merits), you will however have higher overall dps, now most sam's accurately infer that there bulk dmg comes from ws's and sc's rather than tping hits, the problem is that hagun would in fact lower your overall SC dmg when using sek, or meik compared to this because hagun (unaugmented) has no modifiers and lower base calculation. All this aside. Where does nana actually shine? on elusive targets, thos that might use things like stoneskin and shadows. the major point everyone has yet to mention, is that zanshin procs on any non-dmging hit, ergo say you were fighting an HNM that puts up SS a lot, and had a few sam's with these puppies on, they would effectively break down SS, or in the case of shadows, they'd gobble those up too. Additionally and here is the big thing, if you have a decent acc setup and this GK, you actual hit rate goes up, so saying you actually hit the 95% wall on acc, the 5% that you do miss now has to calculate under the 95% proc rate of this thing, you actual miss margin will be ~1-3% instead of a 1/20 miss rate a 1-3/100... i dunno seems like a no brainer to me. Milotheshort 17:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Please, talk pages are for discussion of the related article page, not for arguing about how good or bad a weapon is. Take these fights to the forums if you must, but keep them off the wiki. Tahngarthortalk-contribs 08:37, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
Vs. Futsuno
The Futsuno Mitama is available to 74 players this year via Bonanza 2009. The stats on Futsuno Mitama are roughly better than this weapon, but Zanshin enhancements can make or break either weapon. The DPS seems very close between the two weapons. Personally I'd go for this because Futsuno will probably show up more and more in the next few weeks due to Mog Bonanza 2009. I actually think Pandemonium Warden is harder to pop, and harder to kill, than Absolute Virtue. --Overgryph 10:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
hagun is better than both. rarity doesn't necessarily mean quality. sorry.
--Bowser 19:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
And not necessarily that may be true, as most of the stuff in the game is situational. You should give numbers and reasons before you automatically reject ideas (good ideas in my opinion, with a valid base).
- There's a thread on BG comparing Hagun vs Futsuno http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/63393-futsuno-mitama-vs-hagun-amano.html Basically, stuff is situational. Petco 17:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- "and harder to kill, than Absolute Virtue." Absolute virtue still has not been defeated since it was given Souleater resistance a while back. Tahngarthortalk-contribs 08:38, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
