Talk:Partying/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This guide is a work in progress. Don't be afraid to add any contributions you may have in mind, but there are a few things I'd like to ask of you.

Try to preserve the organization and format of the guide. If you want to add sections and/or move them around, please post here in the discussion first.
Spelling. As with all pages in the WIKI, good spelling is a good thing. Hopefully there will be a spellcheck function available soon, but for now please try to maintain good spelling whenever possible.

Thank you. -Shinwei

Note 1: The tank job in this setup can vary greatly, Paladins are typically used as the 'safest' method, since they have multiple methods of reaquiring hate when an SATA fails. Ninja are used when there is only a backup healer and avoiding damage is wanted. Warrior subbing Ninja are the most powerful in damage production, but there exists a much grater potencial need for a healer, and if a SATA fails, the warrior has a greatest chance of dying.

Note 2: the Any does not truely mean any, this should be tailored depending on the tanks selected for the party. However, any is true in the sence a Damage Dealer, Healer, or support can take the spot in the party. Choosing the other two jobs should have insight into the need for healing, enfeebling, and maximizing damage balence in a party.

This setup is fairly simple, but can fail in any part of the system by anything ranging from human error to lazyness. This party utilizes the fact that a Sneak Attack combined with Trick Attack can deliver very large damage, and has a relitively low recast time. The strategy is to have the Thief constantly using SATA to move hate from one tank to the other, since their are a larger number of theives than usual in a party, the large amount of damage generated will typically make the battles last only a short amount of time. However, this simple strategy can fail when either someone other than a tank has control of hate somehow, or the SATA fails for some reason and now one person is forced to assume a sudden doubling of tanking responcibilities for the next minute.

Saving this one to add in later. -Shinwei

Speedkill

I think I didn't detail this section properly enough. I'm having trouble wording everything, someone please (Help me out!). Thanks. -Shinwei

Complete

For now this guide is "complete" for the most part. Anyone is free to add information to the sections that they feel are lacking in detail and depth though. Just please be sure to follow the two guidelines on top. If I find anything more to say I will add to it as well.

Thank you. -Shinwei

SMN is also used as main healer. (Not saying that's right or wrong, just that it has happened quiet a bit. ^_^; ) Should that be added? -- : Itazura 19:19, 12 May 2006 (PDT)

No. When you get to 60+ or so, a SMN as a healer is very weak. Cure III only can restore 180 HP, and that's less than 20% of your average tank's HP whereas a WHM can cure up to 720 in one hit. So having SMN in the healer's section doesn't make alot of sense. --Zero 11:50, 17 May 2006 (PDT)

Following that logic, NIN needs to be taken out of the Tank section immediately, because they really can't tank well for quite a while, and not at all until after 12. SMN can still main heal after 60, just not very well if it's a PLD tank party, a good NIN tank isn't too much for SMN to heal. --Syeria 12:44, 17 May 2006 (PDT)

SMN can cure more than that if they use a Light Staff which my friend does, also they can use Leviathan and Carbuncle to heal as well. In addition to being able to cure, they have Titan so they can give the whole party Stoneskin and with Garuda they can give the party Blink as well as use Haste. Sure they can only use their Blood Pacts once every minute but they still can cure rather efficiently and at 64 get Erase which is one of the most important WHM spells. I have known SMNs that have gotten that spell when WHM is just their sub before WHM mains who are in their mid-60s got it. SMNs really are capable of Main healing now-a-days. I seriously know many SMNs that are better than some higher level WHMs at Main Healing. Use Barfira on Gobbies, Erase all status effects that having WHM sub allows, and keep the party healed. The only uber-crappy thing about having someone other than a WHM main healing is that you dont get Raise II and Raise III. But unless you get mucho-linkage, no one usually dies. Any well equipped SMN can Main Heal with WHM sub at higher levels with ease. Just having Cure III as a SMN doesnt stop them from still having the ability to cure. With their MP pool so much higher, they can just keep on casting. This isnt just my opinion, its been proven many times. I know many SMNs that frequently Main Cure when a WHM isnt available. They arent as good as WHM, but they are still capable of doing so. --Nynaeve 13:57, 17 May 2006 (PDT)

In case some people are puzzled by some of the recent changes: Everyone has radar--and some jobs (THF, NIN, RNG, BST, SMN, BLU) have "mob" radar or whatever it's called, which makes the monsters easier to see on radar. Only BST and RNG have widescan, however. -Itazura 16:01, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

The statement still doesn't make sense:
Puller duties tend to fall on RNG and THF first and foremost due to the monster radar these jobs have access to.
If NIN, BST, SMN and BLU all have "mob" radar as well, shouldn't they be used as pullers as well? I think another line needs to be added to this statement or this statement should just be deleted. --Pinkfae 16:52, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

I was tempted to edit that, but not sure what would be the right thing to say. These days, just about any job can pull in a pinch. I mean, odd as it seems, there's no reason why a MNK/BRD can't pull... (Ok, ok, MNK/WAR with pebble belt would be more realistic.) Still, THF and RNG are still some of the most commonly used pullers...

BLU tank?

I'm not sure I'd list a BLU as a tank... unless you're talking dunes, and even then I'd seriously hesistate. Of my 64 levels of BLU so far, the only way I'm guaranteed to hold hate is to sub WAR, and BLU doesn't exactly get tanking gear. Cocoon is.... ok, but hardly enough to classify the job as a tank. If I sub NIN, I can tank for some length of time, but it's too difficult to keep hate and keep shadows up. This could be very confusing to people who don't know about the job. --Ganiman 18:29, 7 August 2006 (EDT)

Level Gap vs. Highest Level

In my experience a surprising number of players, even experienced ones, do not understand the way experience actually works in this game as it related to level difference. While the guide gives very good advice on how to make an effective party (keep melees at the high end of the level range, etc.), I feel that it should spell out the most important aspect of arranging a party's levels: experience is directly based on the highest-level party member. "Level gap" as such is completely irrelevant, yet I've had several rank 8-9 players leave parties because of a level 25 white mage in a level 29 party, yet not blink at a level 16 white mage in a party that is otherwise level 14. Remember, as long as every party member is capable of doing their job, one party member substantially above the rest of the party is extremely bad for xp rate, while one party member substantially below the rest is a non-issue.

PUP Tank?

There has been some discussion on the Allakhazam about PUP tanking and the Japanese use them some too. There has been some tests and one of the Puppetmasters on Allakhazam was able to keep hate well enough from two Black Mages against crabs and had very little cures from the Red Mage main healer. It could be a viable option with more tanking and might need to be added to the tank section. --Konigberserk 11:57, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

Additional job classifications

BLM, SMN, and BLU all can play support roles very well instead of focusing purely on DD. I think listing SMN as support also might be a good way to acknowledge the fact that SMNs are used as healers (more often than most SMNs would like), even though they rely heavily on their subjob to do so. That could possibly address the concerns raised above. If there are no objections, I'll edit that into the article. VxSote 17:07, 12 December 2006 (EST)

SMN x2 as combo support?

Never seen SMNx2 without any COR, RDM, or BRD; does it work in niche situations or for a wide range of party configurations? In what level ranges? RDM + BRD works with PLD or NIN tank, and there's little restrictions on DD's or their subjob. Can SMNx2 match the flexibility of RDM + BRD combo support? -Itazura 16:44, 5 January 2007 (EST)