Talk:Rossweisse's Chamber

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My LS just tried this with a full alliance and wiped really hard. Something like 15 skeletons, a roaming tiger that went away eventually, and a huge Buffalo mob that seems to have an enormous amount of HP. 700 damage Thunder IV took off 1 percent of its HP. We tried carby pulling the skeletons, but they all linked on us, massively. All BLM mobs, we didn't get them slept in time, wiped. D: Teakwood 19:39, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

• My linkshell also just tried this. We entered Rossweisse's Chamber with around 32 people. We got rather lucky on the mobs that were in the zone: a huge amount of Bugard-X's, a lone Muninn (small bird, like the Tragopans in Bibiki), and a giant Buffalo named Himinrjot with a huge amount of HP, like Teakwood said. Upon pulling the first bugard, all of them linked, regardless of how close they were to it. We basically handled the bugards like Dynamis, sleepgaing w/ everyone assisting one person. After we killed all of them, we noticed the bird. I'd spoken with a friend in a different LS previously, and he told me during their run they saw the same bird and just let it depop. We figured it probably had some significance, and apparently there is. See this screenshot: Muninn death.
  • As you can see, after it dies it gives this message:
    • The chamber's stagnant aura has somewhat cleared...
      The creatures lurking in the shadows have calmed...
  • Now, since we killed all the bugards before killing the bird, it's hard to be sure exactly what that meant, but we figured it would make it so all the initial mobs wouldn't link regardless of what you do. This might make handling some of the tougher mobs like skeletons etc easier.
• Himinrjot has an absolute ton of HP. We started killing it with about 13 minutes left (due to people taking forever to get in zone, running around stupidly, etc), and only managed to get it to 20% before running out of time, despite using every drop of damage generating power we had (nukes, 2hrs, etc). It seemed that light based spells (particularly Fire) were the most effective against him.
  • Also, I should mention that this guy has a nasty, nasty frontal AOE knock back move that he absolutely loves to spam. After wasting about 5 minutes running around with him knocking us all over the place, we noticed there was a tunnel with a little gate on the west side of the room. We finally wised up and put everyone up in that tunnel with their back against the gate so that he stayed mostly stationary. A lot of time was wasted due to BLMs sitting behind him and pulling hate. We discussed it and figured that having tanks straight in front of him with mages close, but on the sides to avoid the knock back move, would be the best approach.

Hope this helps. This also seems to indicate that the initial mobs are random but maybe the boss isn't? Or our encounter and Teakwood's could just be a coincidence. --Eander 22:24, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

• My LS let the tiger that was running around in this zone depop, and we got the same message you did, except "The creatures lurking in the shadows have grown restless." Not sure exactly what that means, although the skeletons in the zone still had the bizarre linking behaviour after that. Someone should definitely try killing the roaming mob early, to see how it affects the behaviour of the other monsters. Teakwood 15:04, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

When doing Rossweisse's Chamber with max participants:

• Hazhalm Bat (~20 Bats) Normal Attacks.
• Einherjar Eater (~20 Worms) Normal Attacks, lots of -ga's.
• Morbol Emperor (1 Morbol) Cassie-like x2power, frequent TP and a lot of HP. Also uses Draw-in, and does not wonder off than a few feet of its origination.

Killed all the minions without problem in under 15mins, their levels seem to be higher than dynamis mobs. With a few mins left over, the morbol argo'd, not sure if argo'd on purpose, or if someone got too close. After about 20mins of beating on the morbol, we only got it to 50%. Considered pulling the boss after the bats were dead and bypassing the worms as they wouldnt move, in the end it would of been a bad idea if we had done that as the boss uses draw in and the worms like to -ga.

The EXP scrolls Balrahn's Reflections and Hero's Reflections dropped off of a Bat and Worm respectivly.--SephirothYuyX 22:24, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

This battlefield was filled with the Jnun type of monster and undead skeletons, the special mob in it was a bird, we died pretty fast i would suggest having 2-3 PLDs and BRDs at least with regular party setups.

• Ok What I noticed from the failed run I tryed with some friends last night.. We went in with 20 people ended up having Rotting Huskarl with tiger and manticore. When we aggro'd the Skeletons (was hard to count) but it looked like there were aproximately 13-14 with Scythe and from what I saw 4 with shield/club combo. Initial thoughts are that you get 6 base mobs 4 of one type, 1 single beast type(mini-boss?) and 1 mega-boss THEN for each member OVER 6 you have a 4th type is added. Sadly, We pulled the scythe skeletons and wiped (only 1 BRD) and we were not able to try to kill the Tiger or the 4 shield/club skeletons to test to see if it changes aggro/link conditions. looking forward to timer reset to try things again Kaisr 18:45, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

When we tried this last night, we had skeletons with both types of weapons like you listed above, however ALL skeletons linked from across the room from a single pull, regardless of the weapons they were holding. I'm putting the verification back up until a different person can verify your claim, which at this point seems to be false. --Skyw4rp 10:04, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

• Just got out of an Einherjar run. We lost sadly I guess we require more teamwork. Well the reason I am writing this is because I've been doing some research on Norse Mythology and knowing Square-Enix they probably have tied more than just names (yes Einherjar or Einheriar are the dead that will fight with Odin during Ragnarok) well I found out that Muninn is a raven of memory that Odin has oddly enough when it is killed there has been numerous accounts of people seeing the text:
  • The chamber's stagnant aura has somewhat cleared...
    The creatures lurking in the shadows have calmed...
• This would make sense since there is a Norse poem that states Odin's would be fearful if his beloved Muninn would fall in flight because it would create man to forget all their grieve. Jumping back to the actual game this makes sense since it is calming the monsters in the area once it is dead. Also there have been accounts of a "tiger" spawning instead of Muninn and its name being "Saehrimnir" this is the boar(Square-Enix must've changed it to a tiger to lessen the need to make new sprites since there are no "boars" in Vana'diel) anyway that is besides the point the point is that this tiger/boar was cooked everday(it would be reborn each night by Odin) and this would quench the endless hunger the Einherjar(monsters in the zone in our case). Now you ask why am I stating all this? Because there have also been accounts that either "neither bird nor tiger popped"(probably didnt find the tiger in time) or that people saw the tiger but didn't attack it, resulting in it depopping. Then people would get a message similar to the Muninn death one except it would read that the "monsters in the zone have grown restless" this is because they haven't had their "hunger" quenched from the butchering of the Saehrimnir(which in our cases makes the monsters go a little quirky). During our run we got Saehrimnir to pop and we killed it quickly and there was no message that appeared. We had to fight the Krakens (about 10 or so) and the Orobon which swiped us out multiple times we could only get it to 70% before we ran out of time. Also on a side note: Using BLM/SMN 2hrs on the first set of monsters(weakest ones) helps out rather tremendously, after that a sleepga or lullably from Brd helps the remainders. We only had 3BLM and 1SMN and managed to take out about 20-25% of their(Krakens) HP. --Altrage 10:57, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Contents 1 Scaling 2 Linking Habits 2.1 Bonus Mobs 3 Drops

Scaling

Einherjar DOES scale. It is impossible to think that a group of 6 people are going to see NEARLY the same amount of mobs as a group of 36. This is what scaling means. Beyond the theoretical, there have been NUMEROUS reports of smaller groups encountering far fewer mobs than larger groups, in the same chambers. The scaling is obviously not going to occur from 36 members to 33, there are going to be scaled tiers, thresholds that you must break to increase the amount of mobs that will pop. Please don't change it because you've never personally witnessed it, there is more than enough evidence out there supporting this, and until it is proven otherwise, I am a firm believer in scaling. --TtOaXrIuCTC 11:11, 9 June 2007 (CDT) (I forgot to sign my comment from a few hours ago D:)

How can this scale? The mobs are up the moment anyone enters. The server can't read your mind and know in advance how many people will enter, you can create an infinite number of glasses. We're about to start with ~20 people, so I will edit this page if there is no difference from the first attempt we had with 36. I don't see any way for the server to scale this when the mobs are up before all people are inside.(By the way, you should link to the "evidence" you have.) Tahngarthor 23:10, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Update: There was absolutely zero difference in the number of mobs. I find the above user's claim questionable. We had dark elementals both times; 36 people the first time, 22 this time. There were just as many mobs both times.Tahngarthor 00:03, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

• edit: and as an additional point, the number of mobs visible in the area remained the same as people entered. If there was scaling, there would have been fewer mobs until the lamps were all passed out and more people entered.

You may question me all you like, but when I've seen numerous reports of people entering with 6-12 people and only seeing 6 mobs instead of 20+, I'd have to go with it scales. It seems absolutely ridiculous to think that as a group of 6 people you're going to encounter 20-30 mobs as a group of 36 will. To be honest, I noticed that mobs actually "appeared" as I was doing Grimgerde's. I counted 10 ghosts, and watched as they linked from everywhere. By the time we were done, there were about 12 ghosts on my screen, and we had killed 8. The evidence I have are user reports from people I've talked to in-game and other websites that I don't wish to link to here. If you want to see the evidence, visit the other two major forums for FFXI. No one here has gotten exact numbers on how many mobs have popped (and coupled with the fact that it seems highly unlikely that you'd get the exact same layout two times in a row), so even if you had ONE mob less between a group of 36 and a group of 22, you've experience scaling. --TtOaXrIuCTC 09:17, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, and I've also seen stories of groups of 36 just getting 7 bugards or doomed + boss, while groups of 12-18 have gotten 15-20 skeletons + another large group of mobs + boss, like what happened with my group. Skeletons, ghosts, dark elementals, etc always seem to come in large numbers, while doomed and bugards in smaller, seems to have nothing to do with group size or scaling.--Skyw4rp 13:54, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Dude, just look at how the game handles entry, mob spawning, etc. There is simply no way for this to be possible. all the mobs are up as soon as the reservation is made and the first person enters. that one person would be able to see mobs popping as more players entered if there was scaling. The server CANNOT read your mind! We didn't even have one less mob. I'm sorry, but this theory is bunk. Blow 180k and a timer and enter with 6 people- if you see a beatable-in-30-minutes number of mobs, I'll happily concede. But variance in the number of mobs cannot be the result of scaling, simply by the design of the area. I'm sorry, but you don't have much of a leg to stand on:; "visit the other two major forums for FFXI. No one here has gotten exact numbers on how many mobs have popped (and coupled with the fact that it seems highly unlikely that you'd get the exact same layout two times in a row)" This doesn't really qualify as evidence- it's he said she said, plus the fact that "no one here has gotten exact numbers." Also, We actually did get the same layout twice in a row, for your information- Dark elementals both times. what Skyw4rp said makes much more sense, that it's dependent on type of mob, not number of players. (edit) You may have "seen numerous reports," but my postings come from direct experience. Two runs, 36 people and 22 people, dark elementals both times (except the boss was a marid instead of a Ziz) and the same number of them both times. Tahngarthor 18:20, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

• separate comment: I'd like to think that people got the idea of scaling from the fact that Einherjar has an enforced minimum of 6 players whereas Dynamis has no specific minimum number required. But it seems more likely to me that SE simply did that to avoid less than a party of people being able to lock out the area from a larger group of people ready to go in order to test stuff / kill one or two mobs. There have been cases of very small numbers of people entering dynamis for reasons like this (Even though it seems foolish to me due to the cost of dynamis). Tahngarthor 18:30, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

If it is possible Einherjar does scale, I'd say some mobs would depop when you engage; thus the reason for the lockout. In my linkshell's two runs, we've encountered a mix of Bats and Elementals and a mix of Bats and Skeletons. Both groups seemed to have equal numbers; about 12 in each group, so 24 mobs in total. I'm going to disagree with the number of mobs scaling with the difficulty of the mob, since Elementals and Skeletons are probably at the top of the scale. Is it possible that the people who encountered only one type of mob actually got two groups of the same mob? -- Yen 19:08, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

Scaling is very possible as above post has mentioned. Just look at the lockout. Besides I can attest for watching the "Odin's Pet" tiger just magically wandering by and while we were keeping him asleep at our main camp he just faded out and depopped. Its highly understandable that when you engage the first pull that some mobs would simply disappear off the map or some would magically appear from the other side of the zone. If lockout was not in place SE could not implement scaling, otherwise six people jump in and engage the first pull while the other thirty wait outside and jump in and rape the scaled down mobs. It really just makes sence.

I still see no correlation between the number of players and the number of mobs. The number of mobs seem to vary with the type of mobs spawned, but not the number of players. We have consistent attendance and the only change from the last time is bats instead of dark elementals. Tahngarthor 23:50, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I run a dynamis LS and thought it might be fun to try Einherjar with them, anyway we tried the first time with full 36 and we got 15 Skeleton Mobs. Not good with 1 Bard. 3 days later we enetered again, this time got skellies and Dark Elementals, 35 people and I didn't get an exact number on the skeletons but it was about 12 (Hard to count properly when your dead), and on having a run around the circle I counted around 6/7 Dark elementals. Now, here is my point, I went today with just my main linkshell with 12 of us, got the same Skeletons as the first time with 36 people and we had exactly 15 Skeletons. Thus I conclude that while different 'sets' of mobs may have a different number, for each 'type' of possible area the number does not scale depending on how many people enter.

Seems pretty conclusive to me- The number of mobs (It picks two sets and can pick the same set twice) are dependent on the type of mob and nothing else. Tahngarthor 21:23, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Linking Habits

This is very strange. My linkshell tried this just now; we got Krakens and Skeletons (WAR-type). We killed the krakens with 15 minutes left, but they didn't listen to me and decided to try to sac pull the boss. I was amazed, because it actually worked. For a while. A NIN sac-pulled the boss and brought it and the skeletons to the middle of a room, where a RDM Dia'd it from max range. When the NIN died, the boss went to our group, but the skeletons stayed put for 15-20 seconds, then started to walk back to their starting. I'm assuming the NIN thought they aggro'd us, so he reraised and they aggro'd him. He kited them around the room for 20-30 seconds, then they suddenly stopped chasing him and ran for us. He came and voked one skeleton off, but this is what's really strange: two skeletons peeled off the pack to chase him. Later on, he voked another skeleton. Two came, again. When we began to wipe, a RDM decided to try to kite a few skeletons; four chased him, but they were running in couples (right beside each other, spaced a bit apart). It seems like mobs might share hate in couples (or maybe just skeletons), though I don't see how this could help at all, but it's good to know. For the record, we got 9 (counted) Krakens and an uncounted number of skeletons (I'd say 12+). Maybe the number of monsters is based on their size, as people haven't reported large numbers of large mobs (krakens, bugards, ect.) but we always see reports of high numbers of small mobs (bats, worms)?

• Side note, our boss was the Orobon. His Seismic Tail did 700-900 AoE, he had about 100,000 HP and took little damage; there's no possible way it could have been killed by a group of 36 in 30 minutes. In about 10 minutes, we dropped it to 80%. I'm thinking all the mobs have to die for it to become killable.
  • Side-side note, the tiger. Our runs have all been Siegrune's Chamber, we always have a tiger wandering. We've yet to kill it, as we don't spot it until late into the game. We noticed something this time. It despawned at what we're estimating to be half way through our time limit, 15 minutes in. Is it reasonable to say that the wandering mob will despawn after 15 minutes? Can anyone try to record the time they see their despawn? -- Yen 21:32, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

As far as the number of mobs being based on relative size, I would have to agree with you. On my first attempt with 34 people, we ran into bugards and the Wivre boss. I didn't actually count the number of mobs present, but I can make a very good guess and say that there were about 6-8 Bugards. Of course, they all aggrod when one was pulled, however, we somehow managed to aggro the boss as well...

Of course, at some point, someone spotted Munnin, but we had become very occupied with handling the boss AND the bugards simultaneously, so we let the bird despawn. Im nearly 100% certain that if our puller had avoided getting too close to the boss, we would have easily won. In the end, we managed to kill off about 1/2 of the bugards while also working on the boss, which was a monumental task to begin with. When we ran out of time, the boss had 40% hp left. One thing I would advise is that your puller pull from as far away as possible to avoid this same scenario. -- Inquisitor 11:38 12 June 2007 (CDT)

With regard to the relative size idea, tonight my LS entered Siegrune's Chamber and there were ~20 Kraken type mobs and although I could only see 2, our puller said there were a whole lot more Undead Flesh type mobs further back. So the big mobs can come in large numbers too. We entered with 17 members btw. We carbie pulled one kraken, which worked for about 5 seconds... Then they all linked. Sleepga and killed a few, then bird showed up. We killed the bird right away and it dropped a chest. No message ever showed up on any of our screens. We were all frantically looking for it. We emptied the chest full of temp items like you would find in Salvage and still nothing. Ease of the mobs didn't change. In fact we soon wiped. After raising back up and waiting for weakened status to wear off we got a 10min warning. We decided to pull the boss and see what happened... Well the boss was the fish (Orobon type) and it didn't link, but it did draw-in, which made pulling interesting. We eventually got it back to camp and it seismic tailed soon after. We weren't ready for it and we all went down pretty quick. It took us about 5 min to get it down 10%. To be honest though I can't be sure if it was any weaker having killed the bird, but it sure didn't seem easy by any stretch.

Four days prior we had entered at night and been overwhelmed by undead. Our leaders think entering at night time might have something to do with spawning undead, although we entered at about 7 or 8 am vana'diel time and we got kraken and undead flesh. So I don't know.

Three days prior to that we entered and got ~10 moths and a Manticore boss. About 20+ LS members. Killed the moths with much difficulty and didn't know about Tiger so we slept it with the rest of the adds and it depopped eventually. With 10min to go we started on Manticore. We chipped off about 3% in 5min with much dmg taken on our part and having used a successful lv3 SC with MB. That's what lead our leaders to believe the 'Munnin' was the key...

At this point based on our own experience I don't think it's possible to conclude one way or another what use the Munnin is besides dropping a chest. And that was only once so who knows if it does the same thing every time.

Our experience seems to support the no scaling theory, but it's still too early to tell conclusively.

I can however say beyond a shadow of a doubt that 'big' mobs like Kraken can come in large numbers. I saw it tonight with mine own eyes.

Sounds to me like this thing needs to be manaburned into submission with timed nukes and sleeps to guarantee a win. 36 blms {yes, please.} I dunno. I'm quite discouraged at this whole event to be honest. -Shinsetsu- June 12th

I do not think that the manaburn theory will work in this case only because with all our BLMs using two hours as well as our SMNs we only managing to deal about 30% damage to the Kraken mobs(about 10-15 of them) I believe what is required are balanced parties(Six basic parties ie: Tank, healer, refresher, 3xDD) and each party takes a couple of the monsters. Its not dynamis and I don't think they have intended it to be done the same way. But that is just me and my opinion. Btw we had 4xSMNs and 4xBLMs and only took out 30% That's eight out of 36 or 2/9 of the cap. It might work but you would wipe quickly at the boss.

If you got a large number of krakens/big mobs, is it possible you actually got two groups of them, instead of two groups of different mobs? My linkshell is going again tomorrow night. If we encounter undead, we're going to be timed AoE nuking them. Our BLM reported 600-800 Firaga IIIs on groups of up to 12 skeletons, so we figure it shouldn't be too much trouble if our Lullabies aren't resisted. I'll tell you how it goes. A linkshell I've spoken to, which has two clears, only goes with 12-18 people. Judging by the bosses we fought, it is NOT possible for 18 people to win. It has to scale in strength, otherwise their clears wouldn't have been possible. The only tip they gave us was 'Use a lot of light skillchains.' -- Yen 18:08, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

So, we went last night. I'm pretty sure there's enough matching data to say that large mobs have smaller numbers, while small mobs have larger numbers. We (21 of us) encountered Jnun, exactly 7 of them, and the triple bats. I couldn't count how many, but I'd guess 12-ish. We did the Rossweisse Chamber and got Muninn, who dropped us a chest full of recovery items. We wiped to the bats, because we only had 1 BRD with us and our BLM couldn't sleep them for more than 5-10 seconds at a time (and rarely at that, even with Elemental Seal). We tried to kite the bats and kill the boss, the Malboro, but it wasn't possible. The Malboro's damage seemed to increase as the battle went on (he started hitting our NIN for 400, by the end he was dealing 550+). Judging by the damage he took, he had about 100,000 HP and his breaths had massive AoE and dealt 300-500 damage to basically everyone around it. This boss CANNOT possibly be killed by a group of 18, which leads me to agree that all the mobs have to be killed to weaken the boss. -- Yen 15:07, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Last time we got a malboro, and it was very possible to kill with our group of 22 (we timed out at less than 18% ;;). keep minimal buffs on the tank because the boss steals them and everyone will do shit damage when it has protect, defender, and all that other stuff on. As long as it doesnt have all those pld buffs, people, smn especially, will do sick damage to it. If we figured out earlier why our dmg was so bad, we could have done it. >< Tahngarthor 00:43, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

The last time my LS went we had 12 people and after the first wipe we decided to experiment. I tried to kite but I either started at the wrong time or the skeletons were cutting across the room to me, either way I died and of course, the entire pack went for the unsuspecting victims waiting at the door. I reraised up and headed for a corner to myself. These Skeletons have a massive blood aggro range. Before the alliance wiped a pack of 5 skeletons came and killed me again even though I was just minding mny own business in a corner. The A.I must be programmed somewhere to kill certain jobs before others? Has anyone else noticed this?

Also we decided to run and have a go at the Mega Boss while I chainspell kited RDM/NIN and the BRD experimented with lullaby kiteing, as we were wipeing I noticed the skeletons kind of reset into pairs of two. Is it possible there is some kind of grouping to these skeletons? Anyone notice any similar behaviour?

Bonus Mobs

I have given these the title Bonus mobs simply because I can't think of anything better. This is referring to the birds/tiger mobs that appear. After a few extra runs, I have added some extra things!

• Once slept, a bird will resist and depop
• A friend Provoked a Bird once and it depopped
• If left alone they will despawn on their own and can leave a message. I believe only the Tiger always leaves behind a message every time (which is what happened last night) and the bird may leave a message.
• If the Tiger despawns the monsters in the area get harder to kill(If the message appears which is what happened to us)
• The Tiger, at least, is very easy to kill (My Thunder3 on RDM with no stave on did around 10% of its damage)
• We pulled it with a Ranged attack from a Thief, a screenshot above shows Carnage Elegy also works, so basically you have to pull it with damage.
• The Bird Seems to appear after ~10-12mins into the fight in our experience.
• If you pull the bird from a large distance then it wont follo wyou outside a certain radius (it seems)
• The bird will depop after you pull and dont kill it within a certain time.

Now the other things I think we need to know:

• How is the Bird/Tiger spawned? (i.e does it only appear after first pull?)
• What messages does it produce, under what conditions?

Please contribute whatever you can Nixius

Drops

Today we got 6 Nickur, Huginn and Hakenmann for enemies, and got W.Head in the crate. A very lucky run. It was Iceday, not sure what moon. --Valyana 13:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

couldent drop rates be added to the abjs like they are on NMs?

Yesterday we got a Neptunal Abjuration: Legs, added it to the main page.--Koopaa 07:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)