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Talk:Samurai: Ultimate Guide by Gregedor

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  • I've added the guide to the Samurai job page now. It's in at least a useable form now. Updates will continue though. -- Gregedor
  • Wow, been a while since I contributed. Updates added. -- Gregedor
  • Well it's been another month since the last update. Was on vacation visiting my family for some of that. It's late tonight, but I'm going to post an update tomorrow. --Gregedor
  • Large update, the armor loadouts are mostly complete. --Gregedor 18:22, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
  • I did a huge reorg and worked on the look and feel some yesterday. --Gregedor 18:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I updated this earlier tonight with putting what might be a premature /DNC section in and I also incorporated Grips into the article. --Gregedor 06:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Well now that my holiday travels are over and my overseas trip for work is done I have time to come back here and update a few things. --Gregedor 17:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Few minor updates to Jobs and Sample Loadouts. More updates forthcoming. --Gregedor 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Did some more editing. I think I have finally fixed all the STR/DEX convertions since they keep playing with two handed weapons. Changed some other things since I finally got a few pieces of gear. More updates to come. --Gregedor 11:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Well it's been a while since updating the guide, but I've been keeping up with the dicussion page. I am having to move for my employer and will be without internet for a while. For those that talk to me on the game I've been vacationing for two weeks and haven't been around. I'll continue to be gone until internet is up at the new place. I'll be back though, I'm not leaving the game anytime soon. =D --Gregedor 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm up and running in my new digs. I've also done some pruning in the guide. I think I'll finally put in the damage reduction and evasion gear sets. Also someone suggested I give several sample loadouts, like a entry, average and ultimate build. I'll consider that, but it is a lot of rewriting and digging into the annals so I'll take it slow. --Gregedor 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Well it took me 5 months, but I've made some more updates. I'm plowing through top to bottom to update things for new gear and changes in gameplay. I cleaned out yet another STR/DEX conversion that was still wrong (thanks AttalusKazaki). --Gregedor 14:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I did some editing throughout the whole guide for grammar and word choice. Shinsoku is added to the GKT listing. Sample loadouts all have grips and ammo listed now. Should have done that long ago, it's a hold over from before grips came out. Tachi: Rana is still not added, but I'm not sure what to say about it other than HEY IT MAKES DARKNESS. Perhaps that's all I really need to say though. --Gregedor 14:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Huge additions! Tachi: Rana is included on the WS section, there's a sample loadout for Rana separate from the previous WS build (now called YGK build). Also I've added damage mitigation gear and evasion gear setups, which have been long in coming. --Gregedor 12:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Many, many edits throughout the weapons & armor sections. Loadouts are updated since I've gotten new stuff, some blurbs on Champion's Galea are thrown in as well. Probably the highlight is I built a new table in the Store TP section that lays out at a glance the levels for virtually all different delay GKT or PLM you can use. --Gregedor 11:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
  • NEW SECTION! I've put under the strategy area an new section on Hasso/Seigan/Utsu. Go check it out! --Gregedor 11:07, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
  • Updated the job information section. Mostly DNC is updated since the astute Carnivor-Asura saw I was missing job trait information, but I've also gone back and tweaked the other jobs as well. --Gregedor 19:12, November 4, 2009 (UTC)



Contents

Very Nice Guide

This is a very nice guide you have created. I have been following this guide very closely. Recently I have achieved 75 SAM on Remora. Reading your guide recently I have noticed you are creating a section with sets of armor. I happen to have compiled a majority of setups for 6 hit, 5 hit, haste, and tank. I would love to help you and share my insight with you. You can email me or post a responce. Brettherold@sbcglobal.net

Billbab


yes indeed i learned alot from this guide thank you Gregedor


I love this guide as well. I was reading it before I hit 75 and I continue to read it after I managed to hit 75 I still come back and read it every time I try something new on my SAM (like when I was getting ready to do the ACP final battle as /RNG). It's a great guide to help get people pointed in the right direction, I recommend it to everyone I know who levels SAM. --Veloxe 14:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

5 Hit 450 delay possible!

Crunching your formula and info I was able to assemble a 450 delay 5 hit setup.

Billbab

/Dancer

Hey :) just a few comments on dancer sub job. The drain/aspir samba does not function like an en-spell. it just converts the damage you allready inflict into hp or mp for yourself. You forgot the Job traits comming with /dnc. You get Evasion Bonus at SAM30/DNC15 and you get Accuracy Bonus at SAM60/DNC30 ^^ You also get access to resist slow and subtle blow.

-=Carnivor-Asura 12:36, October 30, 2009 (UTC)=-

  • Gregedor: Correct, the Drain/Aspir Sambas do not pull it from the monster, but rather just create it out of thin air. It's useful for people to think of it as en-drain/en-aspir though especially since it will not stack with other en-spells. For the job traits, that's a good catch! I wrote the section early on in DNC and have not gone back to update the information. I'll update that the next time I tweak the guide. --Gregedor 19:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

5 Hit Setups

I believe I addressed that briefly in the StoreTP section. It's possible, but not very practical since you have to dump a lot of other stats for more StoreTP. Usukane feet can really put you a good ways towards it without sacrificing anything. I'm still 2/3 on my Usukane feet.

-Gregedor

How much?

The real question is how much would that improve anbd show in results.

Billbab

Soboro

" * Level 50 - Soboro Sukehiro Again, another sword I wish was around when I was this level. Odds are unless you have a higher level job you probably won't get around to getting this when you are level 50. Not an easy item to achieve at all. The fight is hard and the drop rate lousy. It will be the best damage output until the mid-high 60s, but by 75 it's mostly relegated to being a SAM/RNG or SAM/DNC sword only, or for having fun. It is a TON of fun. I will add that once you get to 75 with endgame STR gear the WS perk up enough to make it useful again. That gap from about 67-74 though it really peeters out"

Firstly the soboro droprate is 53.3% so the droprate is by no means "lousy", infact it is extraordinarely good. We just went 5/5 on this sword and i got it being 42 samurai at the time. The fight isnt hard either if you got competent blackmages. -=|Carnivor-Asura 12:32, October 22, 2009 (UTC)|=-

  • You are extraordinarily lucky to go 5/5. It took me 4 wins just for my sword. I think our best outing was 2/6. It is easy with lots of BLMs, but I've never had more than 2 in any alliance. Doing it with melee stuns is interesting to say the least, but winnable. --Gregedor 22:37, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes i didnt meen that 5/5 is by any means common. And is very lucky considering the drop rate. We had a 100% droprate and thats pure luck. However, the droprate is still 50%+ normally, and that means basically you will under normal circumstances get 1/2. And in FFXI that is a very good droprate. Theres so many that are below 10% even. You said you went 1/4, and that is still a good droprate :) 25% ^^ -=Carnivor-Asura 13:01, October 29, 2009 (UTC)=-
  • Oh and thanks alot for this guide. i have found it very helpfull and thorough. -=Carnivor-Asura 13:01, October 29, 2009 (UTC)=-

5 Hit Setup

Well if we're using Hagun it's 74 StoreTP on at all times, even more if you're going to drop below 74 on your weaponskill. Well it becomes impossible to do a 5 hit build if you're dropping too low on the weaponskill so you're going to inherently weaken your weaponskills to maintain the higher StoreTP. For the sake of argument though, yes it is possible to have a 5 hit build.

One example is +35 from job and merits, +6 from Usukane body, +7 from Usukane feet, +8 from Hachiman kote, +6 from shinimusha haidate, +5 from Rajas ring, +1 for brutal earring, +1 from chivalrous chain and eat Arrabbiato for 5 more. This is exactly 74 StoreTP, meaning you can't take it off for your weaponskills. In your neck/earring/rings/feet/food you've not really lost anything. However, body/legs/hands have taken a dive. Usukane body does well at making up for Haubergeon but it's not quite the same. I wouldn't criticize anyone that wore it though. Wearing hachiman kote over O.kote/bando kote/dusk gloves though is a sizeable hit, especially during weaponskills where you can normally get Alkyoneus's kote for +11 strength. The legs is the biggest nose-dive of all though. Instead of Shura Haidate or Byakko's Haidate you have on a piece that all it gives is StoreTP, no other stats.

So you've gained more TP, but now you're swinging slower, doing less damager per swing, and decreased the damage on each weaponskill. You're gaining 20% more weaponskills, but you gave up 8% haste, 12 Str and 12-24 attack. So you're only about 12% faster at WS and then you're losing roughly 6% STR and 6% attack over your 6 hit build. To me it's a wash, or a slight hit, and it's far harder to implement a 5 hit build with all those Usukane pieces in there.

If you attempt to regain some of that STR and attack by dropping StoreTP on weaponskills it only means you have to wear even more StoreTP on melee hits to keep the build. This is a problem for 5 hit builds because there isn't much left out there to give you StoreTP. You're talking losing even Usukane body to go for Shinimusha Hara-ate, then grabbing Bushido Cape and Atilla's Earring just to get those last few points you need, possibly some Hachiman Kote +1.

Where the 5 hit build can work is with Futsuno Mitama. Since it gives you +8 StoreTP, which is huge, and with 480 delay only needs 54 StoreTP to reach a 5 hit build, this is entirely feasable. In fact, due to the higher delay, I wouldn't use this sword without a 5 hit build. 54 is easy to reach by comparison and you can safely drop StoreTP for damage gear on weaponskills and compensate for it. The only flaw is the weapon doesn't have the TP Bonus like Hagun does so your weaponskills will be weaker. This is compensated a bit by the higher damage on the weapon, both for WS and for melee hits. To fully make up for losing Hagun though, someone has to figure out the latent +8 STR. Unfortunately it's an AV drop so there aren't that many people who can experiment, and all the tests I've heard of haven't worked.

--Gregedor

6 hit build with 45?

I did a little calculating myself, and got the following numbers:

11.5 (450 delay TP) * 1.45 (45 Store TP) = 16.675

FFXI drops everything after the first decimal, so that becomes 16.6.

16.6 * 6 = 99.6

I did a quick test, SAM74 (Trait 25), Rajas (5), Shinimusha Haidata (6) and Shinimusha Hata-Ate (9). Exactly 45 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at 99% TP.

46 Store TP would be:

11.5 * 1.46 = 16.790 16.7 * 6 = 100.2

I added a Chivalrous Chain to the above setup, for exactly 46 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at exactly 100% TP.

Personally, from 70-74 I used the following as TP build:

Haubergeon (I agree, Hachiman Domaru has no business here) Optical Hat (Accuracy baby) Chivalrous Chain (+1) Hachiman Kote (+8) Rajas Ring (+5) Shinimusha Haidate (+6) Hachiman Sune-Ate (+5)

This, combined with my trait gives me Store TP +50. 4 over the mark, but I don't see a way to get the additional 2 I need to be able to drop the Haidate. Also, if I accidentally get a hit or three (Soboro Sukehiro) wearing my rngacc setup (for sidewinder), my TP build can usually see me to 100% still.

1 merit should be enough to be able to wear stuff like Shura or Byakko's Haidate.

--Drwilco

StoreTP Merits

The point is not 1 merit to make it good enough, but a full 5 so that you just straight up toss Shinimusha Haidate and Hachiman Kote for better stuff.

--Gregedor 17:38, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Oh agreed

It's definately true that a full 5 merits allows you to use much nicer setups. My point was that you say it's Store TP+45 you need to get, when in reality it's Store TP+46.

--Alananir 16:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Halberd

What about adding this to the Polearm section?

Glamdring


Sure thing, working on adding a few weapons actually.

--Gregedor 17:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Damage reduction vs Defense

Which one is more important?

Looking around on gears as far as tanking goes, I see that the ones that you have selected definitely have more raw defense over all. But what about damage reduction? You mentioned the arhat's gi and rings but I think you could actually take it a step further.

Lets say you have the Arhat's Gi, Defense Ring, Jelly Ring, now add in the Askar Gambieras, and the new Iron Ram Lance from Campaign, and you are looking at a solid -36% damage reduction. Put high defense items and or evasion and parry items for the remaining slots, and I think you could have a pretty solid tanking setup. Hell, you could even go crazy and get a shadow mantel for additional damage reduction. With this setup, throw up defender, eat some food, keep Seigan and Third Eye up, and you can really take some serious hits. Of course, someone will still have to SATA on to you, but this build still keeps hate better than most NIN tanks can on it's own. At least that is what I think anyway. This is all kind of theoretical after all.

Tell me what you think.

--Polive

P.S. And yes, I know SAMs aren't really accepted tanks, and it's too bad too, since SE made them out to be tanks to begin with. I would really enjoy seeing an all around plausible tanking build that actually works as well as a PLD in regular situations.

Yes, my tanking sections are pretty light at the moment. I just stopped after the defense gear that day because I was tired and didn't pick it back up. What I need to add are Damage Reduction gear like you mentioned and Evasion gear for blink tanking. I will say that the odds of a Samurai getting a defending ring (unless they have PLD or NIN) are going to be very very low.

Most times though I only carry my god set around and swap that on. I have the Haidate and Sune-ate all the time, one for regular use and the other for those pesky NINs in Dynamis. I also take my Osode just in case I feel like switching things up. Since I'm already hauling 3/5 around, I typically just skip any other setups and just bring the full god set. It works decently well at reducing damage. These numbers are just anecdotal, but last week at Omega it meant I was taking about a ~200 damage hit versus ~300. That's a considerable reduction just from adding defense. I don't really test this section much though since it's never been my goal to tank Seiryu as a SAM lol.

I'll certainly add some other loadouts though.

--Gregedor 17:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

DNC sub

dont know if your dnc is still at 16, but a soboro sam subbing dnc is pretty much an inexhaustible well of cure IIs. For solo reasons, it is possibly one of the best combinations for low downtime and high survivability.


Yes, mine is still a sad 16, but I've updated the section to reflect reality lol. --Gregedor 22:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

New Gears

Hey, I was looking through all the new gear introduced in the June 9 2008 update, and several caught my eye. What do you think about these particular pieces? I'd like to hear your opinion, been a fan of your guide and I reference it often for my self. Black Tathlum /Hachiryu Haramaki/ Hachiryu Haidate /Enkidu's Harness /Nobushi Kyahan /Nanatsusaya /Pachipachio /Tomoe

Thanks,

--Polive


Well...it's like Wednesday and the stuff came out Monday lol. It's going to take a while to make some write ups and certainly longer to actually get any of it. I wish I had it all today but I don't.

  • Black Tathlum is pure win, if I can get one there's no need for the stupid Tiphia Sting. The tathlum is double the stats with no negatives.
  • Hachiryu Haramaki is interesting. It is obviously a MNK's wet dream, but for SAM it's kind of a mixed emotion. We have other options like Hauby/Hauby+1, Askar, Byrnie/Byrnie+1, etc. if you want pure attack and damage. For accuracy the +20 beats even my Hauby+1 by 4. I think the crit hits are going to put it over the other contenders though so I'm going to check it out.
  • Hachiryu Haidate OK THIS IS NOT FREAKING FAIR! I just busted tail for Usukane Hizayoroi and this is double the STR. Hachiryu is without a doubt going to be the new king on WS gear. Time to start from square one again.
  • Enkidu's Harness seems like a Hauby replacement. It doesn't have the DEX but it also doesn't have -20 evasion and -5 AGI. It won't stack up in damage to Hauby becasue of the DEX and definitely won't beat the new Hachiryu Haramaki. I could see using this when tanking/solo though over my Kirin's Osode.
  • Nobushi Kyahan um...I guess you could use these over Hachiman at 70, but they won't beat the options to a 75 Samurai. I really wasn't that impressed. The only slightly interesting thing is you can have 3 "Enhances Rice Balls" on now (head, hands, feet). This would make a Tonosama Rice Ball give you 150 atk, 90 defense, 3% double attack. The downside, as before, is the three items you have to wear (except for the AF+1 hands) really are pretty sad. Also I would have to give up (in my build) 10% haste which is huge. I don't think I'll bite on this piece.
  • Nanatsusaya well it's got really good DPS compared to other GKT out there. You'd of course have to stack it up to Hagun just like all the other GKT. I have a feeling it will lose out.
  • Pachipachio um well the DPS on this is actually pretty low and I never like -6 accuracy. With 480 delay you could go for a 5 hit build and try it out. If you stay on a 6 hit build I'm fairly certain it has no hope of beating Hagun.
  • Tomoe well I've been sporting the Iron Ram Lance lately which has really good DPS and the -10% damage taken. This should beat that easily. Basically the same principle as Engetsuto. With the 480 delay you can go for a 5 hit build potentially and it's got a really high base damage which will give better Penta Thrusts than the IR Lance. I like the 5 accuracy and 5 attack helping out. Pure win in my book.

--Gregedor 05:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


awesome, thanks for the quick response. I think I got pretty much the same feeling as you for all of those pieces, just wanted to confirm them with someone else. I'd have to say that I feel iffy about the Hachiryu Haramaki like you do. If you use it to TP in, it might be alright, but that would mean you'd have to swap it out for a WS right? or do you think the extra 5 att and critical +5% is gonna be enough to over take the loss of 6 STR on the haubby +1?

--Polive


Hmm, I don't know on the 5% critical. Criticals aren't double damage so it's not a 5% damage boost it's something less than that. On the raw stats though of 20atk vs. 6 STR and 12 atk, the hauby+1 should win easily. --Gregedor 16:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

300% Great Katanas?

Since the advent of Sekkanoki wouldn't you say that Ushikirimaru isn't needed? And once you get your paws on a Hagun, Onimaru can go right out the window too. I just wouldn't say that Hagun isn't the most expensive though. Going rate on Fairy is 2.7 mil these days, making it the most expensive weapon bar Amanomurakumo.

--Alananir 01:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


Sorry for taking so long, I've been on a two week vacation prior to changing bases.

Well with Sekkanoki it means that you can do a 300% hit and a 200% hit back to back. Obviously with a Hagun then you have a 300% hit and a 300% hit. So if Sekkanoki is available, yes the Onimaru/Ushikirimaru aren't necessary. It is still true though that at 300% the Hagun is not the best GKT so if Sekkanoki is down you could argue that you still want to hang on to the other swords.

Hagun was 1M when I wrote the piece originally because of the lack of Samurai hanging around and I think I paid 1.5M back in the day. After all the two-handed weapon tweaks and the new Samurai abilities over the past 6 months I have watched the price slowly creep up to 2M on my server. In the last month the price jumped from 2M to 3M. I have no clue what has caused this latest price increase. Certainly 3M is not cheap, but it is still definitely worth getting. Shinsoku comparatively has declined from 2M+ in the old days to about 100k now. I've seen many Samurai using Shinsoku until they work up the cash for Hagun. Personally I'm more in favor of Onimaru/Ushikirimaru until you get Hagun money. I'm not going to edit my article today but I'll remove the reference to Hagun being cheap since the markets have drastically changed.

Gregedor 16:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Healing Waltz

When I first heard about the way DNC worked I thought it would be a great sub for SAM, I was right, but even more so, I was AMAZED by Healing waltz. Your guide mentions it as an erase, but in reality it is like a single target benediction without the healing. It literally cures ALL STATUS AILMENTS (albeit one at a time, but it is still absolutely FANTASTIC). I cannot stress how much this ability has come in handy during solo situations. I would strongly advise you to test it out yourself.


Well it's Erase + most of the -na spells. It still does not remove Terror, Doom and some others just like Erase. I certainly won't equate it to Benediction since that removes all status ailments at once plus heals full HP... It's simply an erase+.

--Gregedor 16:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Merits

Your guide offers a lot of information on equipment and job roles, but it doesn't cover merit specific abilities for SAM.

As a SAM, which merits do you find most useful from groups 1 and 2? I know that Store TP 5/5 is a must, but to me there is some value in both Third Eye and meditate. I have 5 merits in Third Eye because I duo and solo a lot, but I wonder how you feel about the meditate merits. In group 2 Overwhelm 5/5 looks like a definite, and Ikishoten seems to me at the moment completely useless. The choice that I have a hard time with is Blade Bash 5/5 or Shikikoyo 5/5. At max merits, both become 5 minute abilities, and I really don't have any interest in dividing the points among them unless there is some really great advantage to be gained. On one hand, blade bash would help me with soloing and lower my TP feed, especially when I go soboro/dnc, on the other hand, a fast shikikoyo will get me more opportunities to let my duoing partner set up a darkness or light SC for me to close. Which merits do you personally have? What are your thoughts on the matter?

Thanks in advance,

--Polive 23:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Well if you solo a bunch I suppose Third Eye merits might be handy, but in terms of being the best DD it doesn't get you too far. Keep the meditate merits. Overwhelm is a must, Ikishoten is lame. Since your goal is not to miss, it means your goal is not to have Zanshin proc ever, which mean your goal is to wipe out the need for Ikishoten. I haven't filled out my tier 2 yet due to RL things, but I'll prob end up splitting with 4/5 on Shikikoyo and 1 in Blade Bash just to have it. Blade bash at 5 minutes I feel isn't going to be as useful as giving TP to your partner every 7.5 minutes. I might even go 5/5 Shikikoyo since I've done 4 years without blade bash just fine. =P

--Gregedor 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

9 Sep 2008 Update

Well here we are, another version update! Mythic weapons yay???

As I read the datamining results I'm kind of left with mixed feelings. The new weaponskill being a threefold attack is interesting as is the Mythic Weapon having occasionally attacks twice, but WTF is up with enhanced Third Eye? I guess it might mean saving your bacon after using such a powerful weapon. It seems out of place right now. On to some armor!

  • Grenadier Belt - HOLY CRAP (for inside campaign)
  • Gnadbhod's Helm - Very nice for WS, but take off fast due to Slow%
  • Zha'Go's Barbut - Looks like a replacement for Optical Hat on SAM/RNG builds.
  • BLU, PUP , COR stuff looks good, my WHM can get a Spirit Taker-esque WS for club, but none of that is relevant here lol, more to come!

--Gregedor 18:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Weaponskill Gearsetup Accuracy

I don't know if you ever address this particular issue, but it really feels like a lot of Accuracy is being sacrificed when you swap to your weaponskill gear set (felt all the more acutely since I am an Elvaan). I do hit 95% capped accuracy on my TP/haste build with full GK merits, but I feel like I am dropping below the cap when I swap to WS. Here's my TP and WS set as of right now:

Melee/TP Build
Weaponskill Build

You seem to like math, so I'm gonna throw you some numbers. Adding total DEX and converting to acc (4 dex to 3 acc) and adding the remaining acc (including GK merits) together, the total acc on TP set comes to 69, while the WS set comes to 51 (assuming gorgets give +7 acc, comparable to the J-torque). That is a net loss of 18 acc straight off the bat. As of right now, the loadout isn't that much different from your posted WS set, with the main difference in me losing about 9 acc from using kosode instead of Hauby +1. But that difference is about made up by me using the Shura Haidates instead of the Usukane Pants. I am hitting... close enough to cap using this WS set that I don't feel pressured to get more accuacy... yet.

The trouble starts when I start predicting changes that I will want to work on, and begin replacing pieces to increase damage output. The biggest item that comes to mind is obviously the Hachiryu Haidate. Swapping that on should do wonders for damage but will cost me 7 acc. If I wanted to wear a Gnadbhod's Helm that will cost me another 2 acc after dex to acc conversion. Suddenly I am losing another 9 acc combined from my WS acc total. It seems to me that stacking damage isn't going to do much if I start crashing in WS acc rate.

Now, I can swap out certain pieces to sacrifice a bit of STR in order to get back some acc. Using an STR to Att conversion rate of 1 STR to ~4.5 Att (on how much each point of STR affects YGK damage to how much each point of Att affects them, I got this number from testing damage on Smilodon +1 to Amament +1, if I am way off please correct me), the Top contenders are at the moment (in order of best conversion rate to worst):



I did not include anything with a net loss in att of over 12.5 because that is the net gain over Shura Zunari Kabuto from wearing Gnadbhod's Helm. It seems pointless to simply swap acc and damage around, the point here is to boost both attack and accuracy in the end.

I know you have a spreadsheet at your disposal for calculating damage, but does that spreadsheet also factor in the total damage after calculating accuracy? I have full GK merits, and I am asking what the best balance of acc to STR is on the WS set. You seem to be encouraging an almost purely STR stacked set of gear, but in the long run, will that be better than the set that land hits more consistently? If you graphed total damage according to hit rate and attack, there should be a sweet spot that guarantees you the highest possible total weaponskill damage over time. What acc and att is that sweet spot at? And which gears should be used to get closest to that sweet spot?

--Polive 17:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, Polive, that's quite a post!

I've tweaked my wording in the guide some for the WS gear section. After the last tweak to YGK there appears to be an inherent accuracy boost to the WS. This is due to it being one hit so SE obviously doesn't want us dropping to 80% accuracy when we cram on the WS gear. I've seen conflicting reports...but I'd go with YGK being around 40 accuracy boost on your WS. Rana, Jinpu and the others do not have this benefit.

There is also less of a correlation on attack boosting damage which is why I say 4-5 (probably more like 5+) attack is equivalent to adding 1 STR. Again, no firm numbers out there, but YGK seem to give a % boost to your attack. Because of this each single point of attack will have less and less effect (diminishing returns) than it normally would. Eventually you will hit the Attack/Defense ratio cap of 2.0 and gain nothing from your extra attack. For most merit mobs this is around 680-700 attack. If you're there normally... no more attack gear! Even if you're down more around 550-600 the YGK boost seems to mitigate more attack. Certainly if you get more STR and more Attack in one piece (like I did with Usukane Hizayoroi) then go for that piece.

So, getting back to your setups. You can drop the 18 accuracy just fine on WS. I'd say you can drop 30 safely. More than that you're closing in on the theoretical accuracy boost on YGK. You can extend this out further with mixed foods such as Hedgehog Pie or Marinara Pizza.

Hachiryu Haidate and Gnadbhod's Helm are great improvements you definitely want to have. I would be working on them now if I wasn't overcomitted and on EU time... Personally I like my Hauby+1 over Osode, but that's a real toss up. Go with what you like. My take on Cuchulain's Mantle is don't bother. Warwolf vs. Potent is a good place to regain a few accuracy points, but more importantly you can shed 3 enmity without a large hit to damage. Keep both for differing situations. Rutter Sabatons hands down for WS.

In the end you've lost 27 accuracy I think over your melee build. This shouldn't be noticeable. If you like though you can go parse during a merit session and compare before and after your WS hit rate. I'm sure this is how they noticed that YGK got an accuracy boost in the first place. I'm not a huge parse fiend myself, usually there's someone out there that's done the grunt labor already and you can feed the numbers into a spreadsheet to crunch some data. Sorry for being a month late on your post!

--Gregedor 14:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Champion's Galea

With the new Mini expansion out. One of the possible rewards turns out to not be a very bad item for Samurai. The raw damage output on a Gnadbhod's Helm may still be better, but The difference will be at most only 8 attack. Plus, you get a lot more accuracy on the Champion's Galea. In fact, having just the 4STR and 15 WS acc on it alone would make it a better piece than the Optical Hat for Sidewinder. As for the second augment, that is where I am not quite sure. The tossup is between the 2STR 2 haste and the 2% WS damage 4AGI. If I were going to make it a dedicated sidewinder helm then the 4 AGI is obviously hands down the winner. However, if I wanted to replace my Shura zunari kabuto, Which one will get me higher damage output? And I mean against higher tier mobs, since the 2% WS damage will most likely win out on anything T and below.

--Polive 20:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

  • I've decided from listening to others and getting one myself that the 2% Weaponskill Damage will beat out the additional 2 STR you could get. This would of course mean that the best GKT WS piece is also the best Sidewinder piece... and not all that shabby for Penta Thrust either. Overall I'm very impressed with the Champion's Galea. Part of the heartache for me though, is the best WHM piece is also available through this... as would be a great THF WS piece... so I've had to pick one job over the others and I'm going with SAM baby! Unlike the ACP body where you essentially can only get an equal piece to others available on the market, here you can get a superior one. --Gregedor 11:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Recent Update

So, abit of a question about the recent Utsu/Hasso/Seigan update to the guide.. I can't log on to double check this, but I'm pretty sure Utsu: Ni doesn't overwrite either Utsu: Ni OR Utsu: Ichi, though utsu: Ichi will overwrite Utsu:Ichi, so am I misremembering, or was this an accidental error, or was it just changed recently? --Alaik (originally unsigned)

  • Utsu:Ni can overwrite itself or Ichi, and Utsu:Ichi can overwrite itself. I don't think this has ever changed. Same tier spells overwrite and higher can overwrite lower but not the other way around. This is similar to the Dia > Bio > Dia II > Bio II progression if you're a mage. Dia can overwrite dia, but dia cannot overwrite dia II.
  • If your timers are coming back up in time, this is a good way to extend out your shadows coverage, but most likely you won't have Ni ready with Ni shadows remaining. Ichi is more possible due to the shorter recast. I have found it much safer to go Third Eye > Ichi > Ni > Third Eye rather than getting into the whole TE > Ichi > Ichi > Ni or TE > Ichi > Ni > Ni and it's certainly better than trying TE > Ichi > Ni > cancel Ni > Ichi. That's just a fumbling hassle that you don't need. If you're not using Seigan, sure go ahead and chain your utsu. But with seigan up just go to Third Eye. If you have Seigan up and you're not using Third Eye, then why do you have Seigan up? Just go with Hasso or nothing. --Gregedor 08:39, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


Tachi:Rana & Amanomurakumo Epicness

I've been wondering about something for a little bit, working it around in the old noggin.

If you combined Relic GKT+tach:rana, wouldn't rana become the strongest ws in the game, you get the +20 accuracy and the occasionaly 2.5 dmg multiplier, might make this a monster 3 hit ws, plus if you throw in the champions galea you have +15 ws acc, and probably another good deal of acc on the rest of your gear, so you should hit at least 2/3 hits on about 15-25% of ws's, and 3/3 hits on the rest of your ws's (normal merit mobs, would never use rana on a god or something until I got a chance to test extensively on merit mobs) basically with the 2.5 dmg boost on occasional hits, let's say 1/3 hits gets the dmg boost, that's still 1 hit with roughly a 87.5% str modifier, and 2 hits with 35% str mod (and from most parses I've seen the relic GK activates the dmg mod about 35-50% of the time)

so lets say the dmg bonus activates every 1 out of 3 hits, a little math for myself more than anything ;p

(STRmod x total STR)(dmg bonus), and lets say you have a total str of about 140 for YGK and about 125 for rana to get a little more acc out of the build for more hits

with YGK you get (75%x145)(2.5), (75%x145), (75%x145), thats 3 seperate ws's for 3 hits and 1 relic dmg bonus activation, totalling 300~ tp used

with Rana you get (35%x125)+(2.5)+(35%x125)+(35%x125), all in 1 ws for 100~tp so multiply by 3 for the same amount of tp as listed for YGK's, you can even take out a relic activation hit and a normal hit to be a pessimist about rana not hitting well, and still get more dmg out of 300%tp i think... plus with 3 YGK's on the 2nd ws your pushing past the high end of the activation rate on the relic, so 2 hits each with the dmg bonus is fairly unlikely, whereas with 3xrana's you get maybe 7-8 hits, 9 if your lucky, so on 9 hits you have 4 hits that are below the high end 50% activation rate, so a much greater chance of really splitting some merit mob in twain.

The only drawback that comes to mind is the skillchain difference, where I can do back to back Tachi:Kaiten with 3 ws's for 2 light skillchains (assuming the mob doesnt resist the skillchain damage) the 1st light will be 100% dmg and the 2nd light will be 150% dmg, so its's like 5.5 ws's, with 1 of them (realistically) having the 2.5 dmg bonus, which depending on when the dmg bonus activated could make for a huge skillchain. I can't do back to back skillchains with 3xrana so that kinda sucks

just something to think about, I'm a couple of months from stage5 and about the same from unlocking Rana for all GK's, so I will post on my results when i get them. I personally think this is going to blow some people away when i break it out for the 1st time in front of them ;p I still need to do a little more math and get my gear together for each build, but I think for single 100% tp ws's tach:rana+relicGKT with the right gear has the most potential.

sorry for any spelling mistakes or if the math seems crazy, I'm in Iraq and I've been up for a looong time ;p JavelinX 13:01, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

  • Gregedor: Moved your section to a new topic. While the 2.5 multiplier is indeed cool, it does not activate during weaponskills. Rana probably won't be your main attack, but rather Kaiten for normal mobs. On gods/bosses/etc the standard YGK can actually outperform Kaiten I'm told. --Gregedor 19:56, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Soborro v Hacchonenbutsu?

Having recently gotten a Hacchonenbutsu dangozashi from ZNM was looking at the low delay and wondered if would be a viable substitute for Soboro in some situation. As I don't have a Soborro atm can't test myself but wondered if anyone has done some testing SAM/DNC or SAM/RNG for tp gain with constant low delay against Soborro's multi hit procs. --Intergalacticsockpuppet 18:12, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

  • Gregedor: Well... Soboro will do a multiple hit about 45% of the time. I remember reading that somewhere, maybe BG. Anyways, let's assume it is 45% of the time. The base delay is 450. If you assume you swing 1.45 times per round, that's the same as having a delay of about 311. Now that math is double attacking, if you triple attack some of that time then you have an even lower equivalent delay. If we low-ball the Soboro and say it only double attacks 30% of the time then the equivalent delay is 346. Since Hacchonenbutsu is a 378 delay it doesn't come close if all you're concerned with is TP gain for /DNC or /RNG. Hacchonenbutsu does have a vastly higher base damage and on the average a higher DPS. Soboro is 5.33 DPS when single swinging, 8 double, and 16 triple (according to FFXIclopedia) but you don't double/triple every round. So... basically for TP gain Hacchonenbutsu not the same, but it is the next best GKT. For damage it should be consistently better than Soboro, which might make it more appealing for /DNC or /RNG. Congrats on getting it! --Gregedor 20:11, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
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