Talk:The Mothercrystals
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I'd like to make a few comments on this page.
First, just a note on how EXP works in capped areas. You either get FULL experience for what your UNCAPPED level would earn, or you get HALF of what your CAPPED level would earn, whichever formula gives you more.
For example, if someone whose true level is 30 enters the level 30 capped Promyvion - Holla and solos a level 30 mob, he will earn 100 EXP. If someone whose true level is 31 were to do the same thing, he would only earn 72 EXP, a 32 would earn 61 EXP, and a 33 would earn 50 EXP. You would expect a 34 to earn only 46 EXP; however, since he is capped at 30 the formula changes and he now earns HALF of 100 EXP, so he gets 50 EXP. All players 34+ would earn 50 EXP.
Note however, that limit points are never reduced; you get FULL limit points while fighting in a capped zone, no matter what your true level is.
Next, I believe all mobs in Promyvion are True Sound, not True Sight. However, their aggro radius is quite small. Also, now that I think about it, they might actually be a combination of sight and sound... it seems like they aggro from further if you walk in front of them rather than behind them.
On the Holla boss I would erase the recommendation for Holy Water... it's not necessary since the Curse isn't too powerful and the boss will just Curse you again 10 seconds later, you'd just be wasting time, effort, and MP if you cure yourself above the Cursed HP amount. Poison Potions, on the other hand, are essential. Also, there is one VERY important thing that is not mentioned on Holla boss: Shadow Spread also does AoE Blind. I have seen several parties get all blinded and they wonder why they can't finish off the last 5% of the boss. Mages should be very handy with Blindna, or better yet, melees should bring Eye Drops to relieve stress on mages. Also, one of his moves does Slow, I'm not sure which one. But it's very powerful and will put Utsusemi recast very high (around 45 seconds, I think). As a result, I highly recommend not using a Ninja tank for this one; WAR/NIN is best.
For the Dem boss, he is pretty easy but I highly recommend using Hysteroanima once he starts spawning babies. Also, mages keep Paralyna handy, it could win the fight for you.
For the Mea boss, I must reiterate the importance of Antidotes. I have lost many times on the "easy" ENM because I didn't bring Antidotes, until I realized something. Impalement + Poison = Instant Death. The poison is very powerful (15 per tick?), so tank should especially be quick on the Antidotes.
In general on all the Promyvion bosses I am against bringing lots of SMNs and RNGs. Not because these jobs aren't good (they rock), but that people use them wrong. The purpose of these jobs is to END the fight, not BEGIN them, and that is the fatal mistake that so many parties make. Also, some parties bring tons of anima and medicine, hoping that they'll win by overpreparing. The truth is, a lot of people get to the fight, chaos breaks out, they focus on using their items at the right time, and they forget how to play their job. So here are a few of my recommendations for Promyvion bosses:
1) Play it steady. Have at least 2 good melee damage dealers that can just gradually chip away at the boss, and keep them clean of Blind and Paralyze.
2) Try to save your anima during the first 50%, especially Hysteroanima. The bosses start using special abilities more after 50%, and they go crazy at 10%, so Hysteroanima are more effective the later you use them. Use Psychoanima in emergencies such as if hate gets out of control, tank's out of images with a long recast to go, or mages are getting behind on healing.
3) Use 2-hours to finish the fight, not start it. The later you use them the better, so try to hold off as long as you can. If you jump the gun you might end up with a very angry boss with 10% HP and a bunch of blind or paralyzed melees that can't finish it off. If you have two "good 2-hours" (SMN, RNG, SAM, MNK, etc), you can probably use them at 30%, if you have three, maybe 50%. Sometimes with SMNs you can start earlier for multiple Astral Flows, but be careful, sometimes the monster might move and waste an AF or you simply won't last long enough to get a second one off!--Cryconius 00:33, 13 Feb 2006 (PST)
Contents |
This isn't a guide
A lot of this page is written like a guide. This shouldn't be the case. I suggest cleaning this up.
Nashmau Stew: A Warning
In the Holla boss fight it is recommended that the tank should use Nashmau Stew. I think it might be a good idea to add a warning about its group effect. Most players are unfamiliar with group food and may not be aware of when best to use it or even that it may harm the rest of the party. On the other hand does a player who takes unfamiliar food without knowing its effect deserve all that they get.
Nashmau Stew
I dont see the point, tritary tap doesnt absorb food effects.
Stygian Vapor
Just helped my brother with this fight today and noticed that Stygian Vapor does NOT reset hate. Removed this statement from the article. Phoneybone 09:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Deletion of Important information
Prep Tips should remain on the main Wiki Article, as it is the first place people look when seeking information for the CoP missions. I feel deleting these entries is fairly irresponsible, especially with no Talk discussion posted. So far this has been done 2x by user: Asphe. I have returned the CoP pages to their previous state, and made a note of that here. --Malitia 23:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
- We always have prep/strategies/etc on the talk page, if there is not a link to the prep/strats, there needs to be. Asphe was right to move the information to the talk page. Reverted. --CharitwoTalk 00:13, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Really? Always? Have you even looked at the CoP mission Wikis? Lets take this one right here. I'll make a bunch of quotes:
"A Ranger can solo all the MR's using sushi and bolts ranging from Holy to Bloody; the Ranger can melee the MR while using his ranged attacks to kill the Strays. On the third floor, the Ranger can use Bloody Bolts to kill the Light Strays and Holy Bolts to kill the others.
If you need to go down a level, search for a platform that has a live portal, but no MR sitting on it. That will be the portal down. Do not to get separated from your group, so don't randomly explore!
If you do not have a White Mage, you can use your reraise item upon reaching the third floor. Although the previous floors may have been easier, things can get extremely difficult from here on out. On the fourth floor, there is no MR, but a zoneline to the Spire (BC entrance). It may be very difficult to avoid aggro on the fourth floor, but if you get caught and the castle-like structure is nearby, you should be able to zone easily. If your party has a SMN, have them summon Carbuncle and have it assault/kite any monsters that aggro, the party can then zone into the Spire.
It is advised that before entering the BCNM, you set an order of use for animas. They last 30 seconds and do overlap (in that by using one during the effect of another of the same type the timer of effect will reset to 30 seconds), but panicking and using three at once is a waste. Also note that the effects of anima stack, so you can use Psychoanima and Hysteroanima in pairs to stop all attacks. You can use a very simple breakdown and tell the party:
* Member #1 use 2 at 100% mob HP * Member #2 use 2 at 80% mob HP * Member #3 use 2 at 60% mob HP * Member #4 use 2 at 40% mob HP * Member #5 use 2 at 20% mob HP * Member #6 hold for emergency use should someone become unable to use theirs. "
So please explain to me then why this exists in the main wiki article? This is all opinionated guide, and lots of it is totally random useless info. Ranger having Sushi to solo the Strays? lol #1 what does sushi have to do with anything, #2 there are a ton of jobs that can "solo" the strays #3 holy bolts to solo them hey? any bolt will do, and holy bolts would get nerfed on the Light-based strays. There should be some kind of guide I agree, people need to know whats happening and what to do, not a blank useless information article.
I'll continue on.
Prom 2-3:
"[edit] Notes
It is highly recommended that players do not lock onto the Minotaur and taurus type mobs while fighting. This helps to quickly spot and avoid Mortal Ray by turning around. This can be soloed, you just have to be very, very, very fast with selecting the proper torches. I do recommend a party of at least 2, because this is a pain. To solo this I went THF used Flee to the room, Reraise and then did the torches.
"[edit] Strategies
You can create an Alliance to complete this mission, but a skilled party of 6 can complete it without help. It is recommended that you invest in Silent Oils and Holy Waters. Recommended that you have one dedicated healer, who will **Face the wall** at all times. This will prevent the healer from becoming Doomed, allowing them to keep their attention on the party's health. The Draw-In is very disorienting, and you come upon the minotaur all of a sudden. When you enter the water for the last time, you should already be prepared for battle. "
Why do these two entries exist on the main wiki page then?
I'll continue on:
Prom 2-5
"In this area, cast Invisible or use Prism Powder to make your way past the Atomic Clusters—they are aggressive to magic as well, so use extra caution."
This exists on the main wiki page, man what a stupid point this is. Cast Invisible on yourself, to get by the Magic-Agro Atomic Clusters?..... Good one
"The Unstable Displacements appear to have a time limit. If someone dies right before the displacement and the scale has been traded you CAN go back to raise them and have them come through. Estimated time limit for this is about 3minutes."
This exists in 2 places on the page.
"Okay, I was in a group consisting of a smn/whm, whm/blm X2, and nin/war x3. we had an whm on each nin, and we pulled them away from each other. Each mage focused on one of the ninjas (note: this tactic is slow, but easy once first dies) Items: Yellow liquids, Yagudo drinks, and a couple of potions and reraise scrolls. Done in about five minutes"
"No matter what strategy is in effect, your log window should be watched at all times for the use of Transmogrification. Physical attacks (including from pets) should cease immediately; magical attacks are still okay however. After 10 seconds or so a weak attacker should "test" the status of Transmogrification at their discretion, once damage is inflicted again it is safe to resume physical attack."
"Pets attacking will also heal them during this time. If using the super kite strategy, remember that a Summoner, Dragoon, or Beastmaster releasing a pet will draw aggro from the unclaimed Mammets (the act of summoning, however, will not cause aggro). As will anyone resting on the battlefield."
This is totally opinionated info, and on top of that, its on the main page?
I'm not going to write any further because I dont have time to go thru the entirety of the Promathia Pages and point out the problems with it(of which there are many as we spend a lot of time deleting useful info like PrepTips because its the first thing in plain site, and leave the idiotic stuff buried in articles). They were a problem when I completed CoP, and so I made the appropriate changes to lessen that problem. However I just went to help a friend last night with both Sacrarium and Promyv-Vaz, and absolutely no one was prepared, and no one knew what was going on. And why was that? Because they didnt know what to expect to be prepared with, the information had been deleted from the Wiki articles, and lastly, absolutely no one is ever going to know(or use) the talk page for additional info... Because 9/10 thats where the trash info sits. In this case Prep Tips was never moved to the Talk Page, it was deleted from the main Wiki article. Why are we deleting Useful Information, leaving useless information in Wiki articles, just because the Useful information wasnt in some exact category? Thats a pretty warped way of handling information.
In closing people come here for information on what to do, more and more often these Pages move away from that, and become almost no help at all. I feel it is pretty irresponsible to be denying people who have no idea whats going on, the information they would need to bring them up to speed, be prepared, and know what to expect. So please dont respond with "We always have prep/strategies/etc on the talk page" that is pretty disrespectful for people who are actually trying to turn the CoP Wiki entries into something people can actually use. If we wanted to direct ppl to trash information, we would just send them to Alakaz.
Reverted.
--Malitia 19:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it me or with the condescending "Prep Tips" and the 'new' additional info show-horned into almost everything, the front index page keeps getting more crowded? Did SE add something that significantly new in the past TWO YEARS? Or has the point of having a 'front page' or index or content page just gone out of fashion? Let's just call the whole thing Malitia & Co's Hand-Holder's Guide to COP and leave it at that? Let's just leave 'it' in place for the rest of us to continue to get a laugh Asphe 19:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
If you feel the Prep Tips are condescending, then that is 1 thing to be addressed. Removal of them completely based on your opinion however is way over the line. The front page gets more crowded, because people need information on what to expect going into a CoP Mission. They do not need a useless blurb description. If ppl wanted that, they could just read what the mission log shows in game. People need a robust wiki article, describing whats happening and whats it about. I think about the best example is: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki". So that's Wikipedia's article on what a "Wiki" is. Its very crowded, very verbose, and goes through many things about a wiki, including on what to do. I dont think you are going to get a more exact "this is what a wiki is" example anywhere else on the planet.
SE didnt do anything new in the past 2 years, but the player base sure has. Maybe try being a new player shouting for CoP pickup groups, and just maybe you'd have a little more appreciation for a site & article that outlines what is coming up. Generally the people you get now are ppl who dont care(why they havent done CoP for 4 years), or people who are brand new and dont know enough to care. Either way you stand to lose X amount of hours of your life, and for what? Because you have the opinion that the Wiki front page is a bit too cluttered? That's pretty selfish. Ive gotten a lot of positive feedback when I direct people from Lakshmi to these pages. I have done up to Tenzen fight 4 times now; 2 times for me, 2 times for friends, and completed CoP twice. So I think I have a pretty good grasp, and a fairly solid foundation to say "ya I think this is good information that will help".
The point of having a front page has "gone out of style", because it is a dumb, dated, idea that no one needs. That's called progress. That's like asking, "has plugging a peripheral into your computer, and then having manually detect it, locate the drivers and install them, gone out of style?" when we moved from serial to USB connected devices. If thousands of people are bypassing something there's generally a reason why.
In closing if you want to make childish, catty posts, send people a userboard messege. There's no need for pointless opinionated blurbs on a talk page for the Mothercrystals CoP mission. Especially from someone who cant even properly space their post.
-- Malitia 00:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Meow! Asphe 14:47, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
