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Talk:The Secrets of Worship

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The pupils Cannot be slept
Lullaby, Horde Lullaby, Sleep II, Sleepga all tried. Lullaby and horde lullaby both tried with and without Soul Voice, Sleep II and Sleepga with and without Elemental Seal. Resisted all of them —The preceding unsigned comment was added by M0nkeyonheroin (talk • contribs).

Yes make sure you do not use tractor after the fight with the Professor, it will cause the player to zone and not be able to obtain their key item from the desk. I thought it would be cool to Mijin Gakure the Professor and was tractored to avoid Fomor Aggro. I even popped the Professor to begin with and was not even able to obtain my key item. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MNKDinh (talk • contribs).

Good to know, thanks for the tip and edit! --ЩåΫķẮ †Talk† 05:56, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
The article now states tractoring is not a problem because you do not zone. But isn't tractoring in and of itself a 'zone'? The PC disappears and reappears within the same zone, but for the purposes of beseiged and possibly campaign battle, it counts as zoning. Why not here? Is it really OK to tractor?--Vyenpakakapaka 01:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

When I did this mission, we had a few people test tractor and it does in fact count as a zone. Whoever said it doesn't really messed the page up -_- Yuppiekin

I've been helping some people through this mission. Out of 3 runs, the proffesor NM poped in the room at (F-5) (after the drop off) all 3 times. Not sure if he always pops there, or if this was just coincidence, but thought I would mention it. Maxeon 13:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Coincidence, it popped twice in a different room for me. Zaphor 21:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a nitpick, but technically the mission doesn't begin until after you talk to Justinius. Until then, you're still on The Savage (the previous mission). --Baroness 22:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I went as PUP, using Valoredge frame, just deployed to the NM and puppet kept following it even when it teleported back to the room... Had a SMN friend also who did also the same with Carbuncle so bringing pets is a good idea; problem is that deploying puppet and/or pets back will difficultly bring back NM unless puppet and/or pets has all the hate. Karakuri 17:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The walk thru says that if you have hate you must clear the room before popping the NM. This may be practical if you are there doing swift belt or can get another group to do it for you or have a large group, but a 6 person party can win this fight with hate by fighting in the hall. Clearing the room with a small group is iffy because of repop time on the fomor not to mention the fact that the ??? may not even be the right one so you will likely have to clear multiple rooms and risk the ??? moving into one you already tried. The Ghost does have a regen, but it's not huge. To defeat with 6, just fight while he is there and once he teleports regroup and wait for him to return. Best set up would be 2 tanks (1 for Prof and 1 for Pupils. A main healer with at least another /whm to assist. And 2 DDs. Key to the fight is to stay out of blood aggro range of the fomors in the room and in the hall. Fighting on the stairs will work. If your healers at least have no hate they can stay out of range of sleepga (otherwise poison potions should be used). I've done the fight this way several times with people who refuse to remove hate because they have a swift belt run planned. Honestly, I would say that not removing hate is just foolish, but the the fight can be done his way. It's longer and more dangerous. ShadowKatze 16:28, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I might as well. I figured since nobody has really posted any known working combos for this mission I'd give what I used. Keremet already has some pretty decent info, he's a pretty easy fight. For ghost, I beat him with 5- SMN, BRD, NIN, SAM, and DNC. The general strategy is for each melee to get the attention of one ghost (If you have a DNC he get hold one of the ghosts more or less forever). All melees subbed NIN, and the fight was pretty easy, albeit really long because of the lack of DDs we had. Kincard 14:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to stress the benefit of BST with a charmed Blubber Eyes for at least the first part of this mission (the Keremet fight). We went in yesterday with two BST/NIN and a WHM/BLM and died a horrible dead trying to beat Keremet with Courier Carry while meleeing alongside our pets. Second attempt we first ran behind the Teratotaur, had the WHM sleep one of the Blubber Eyes (Repose worked very well) and then took turns in trying to charm the IT+ mobs. Used Familiar on success. Then the other BST did the same on the second Blubber Eye. Went back to the two corridors with the skeletons and let the Blubber Eyes rip them apart (usually they get one or two-shotted by the Eyes). Finally pet-pulled Keremet to one of the corridors and just let the two Blubber Eyes beat the hell out of the Corse, while enjoying the battle from a safe distance. Keremet really gets murdered by the Blubber Eyes (it was extremely fun to see one of them use Petro Gaze and actually petrify Keremet). Fight took about 5 minutes and both Eyes came out of the battle with 75%+ HP remaining. --Demetress 10:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Update: We did the Old Professor Marisol fight the week after using the same strategy: two BST/NIN Familiared a Blubber Eyes and set that pet to fight the professor. The result is amazing, not only do the Blubber Eyes tear the old professor apart, they keep hunting him down after he teleports. Basically, all we had to do was spawn the Professor, set the pets on him and wait for the battle to end (which took about 8-10 minutes). Occasionally feed the pet a biscuit (doesn't matter which, just to wake it up when it gets slept by the professor), use SIC whenever the timer is up (all TP moves of the Blubber Eyes are Single Target, so no need to be afraid to aggro the Fomor in the class room with an AoE move), and deal with the summoned Pupils at the start of the fight. It doesn't get any easier than this. --Demetress 11:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Text Discussion

I made some formatting changes and added information to make the walkthrough easier to read/follow. I don't know why Malitia keeps changing it back, I kept most, if not all, of the original information. All I did was rephrase/reorganize how it was presented. I just completed this mission for a friend a couple of days ago and the changes I made would be helpful to anyone who is going to do this mission.-thanopstru 20:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Generally the party making changes should be the one with the onus to explain why they are needed. However keeping with the spirit of wiki, I will take the time out to explain why the changes went too far.

I cant speak for everyone who plays, but I will say that I for one am pretty tired of having to do events with people in-game who know nothing, but take these Wiki entries as Bible and Law, and often waste the whole party's time due to mis-information, or LACK of information of these contained there-in. I think everyone's time is worth a lot to them, and the removal of information by user: "Thanopstru" is exactly what I edited the existing CoP wiki entries away from. The original CoP wiki entries were either Well done, but slowly broke down due to random meaningless entries, or not done well from the start. These missions are trying enough without making the wiki entries worse. When I did CoP, I for one would of loved a break/or help.
The changes made by user "Thanopstru" are not layout and formatting changes, they are removal of entire sections of text, and input of misleading information:
The changes in the history comparison log are as follows:
1. why would you take away the address entry, and note to spell the mission properly? If people are giving this Wiki entry to someone in game, obviously the receiving party A)has never been here before, B)wouldnt know you have to get the spelling exact for the search to pull up an entry. So first point of how the "Thanopstru" changes are making it harder than it needs to be on someone.
2.You split 1 point up into 2 points. If your objective was to clean up the wiki, adding entries just puts more clutter in it.
3.'There were 2 easily readable points regarding the Coral Key. Now there are 3 intermingled points that detract from the overall purpose. 4/6 party members will not know whats going on in a mission and wont care to read a wiki entry, especially if its not clear. Also this new revised entry contains repeated information, as the Walkthru explains how the keys have to be held by 2 different members. So far after only 3 points, the revised model is more obscure, no longer "to the point", and adds more unrequired text.
4.There wont be any "mages" sneaking, that's misleading. a BLM cannot Sneak, nor can a SMN, BLU, etc. If they /WHM,RDM they sure can, otherwise they cannot. Due to this, changing the word away from "Healer" to "mage", is completely unnecessary. Healer classes in the game; like WHM, RDM, SCH are the ones who have Sneak... Not mages as a blanket statement. What if the BLM or BLU in party came /NIN for Utsusemi?
5.Another bullet point is split into 2 bullet points regarding doing the mission with 1 Coral Key. This again adds more content than is necessary, and for plain "to the point" bullets, there isnt a reason to split them into 2 separate bullets.
6. Why would you change the text away from "First, kill the skeletons", which indicates an order of strategy, into simply just "defeat". Again this is an unrequired change, that is just indicative of the Changing Person's preference.
7."Optional Step but recommended" Again there was no reason to change this point, there was no improvement on the Revised version from the original. This is just wasted time, changing things for the sake of changing. The Changing party, "Thanopstru" edits this to simply just instruct a step without explaining why. The explanation as to why is then split in to 2 bullets. What is the purpose of that? The original document gives an explanation of what is going on, and then allows the reader to make a choice on their own about it. So again a revision is made that just makes things more questionable than they needed to be.
8. Regarding the wooden door's 1st cutscene, the revised version splits 1 bullet into 2 bullets. Again, why? Do a Google search on what the average human wants to see in an "Executive Report" style format. It's not adding more points with more information, or the same information split into 2-3 more points.
9.The Old Professor does not "pop" anyway. The ???'s are located in the classrooms, and he may spawn from one of those you check. So here again in the original document we have a point that is well-explained, tells users where the classrooms are, and then what to expect from them. The revision tells you that the old Professor will pop in 1 of the classrooms... And you as the user have to then read on to find out where the classrooms are, and oh, he actually doesnt pop, you have to spawn him. Again on this bullet we have 1 well-explained "to the point" bullet that has been expanded into 3 more obscure bullets.
10. The last gem. The original document tells users to head back to the wooden gate and click on it to finish. The revision simply says click on the wooden gate. Why change that, especially to something so lacking?

In closing, I agree with the wiki ideal to have many people input information, but I do not agree that people who construct original documents should have to defend why it shouldnt be changed. If there are UNDO's being done, it is for a reason, and the changing party should be able to supply ample reason as to why the original documents are no good. That did not happen here.
This kind of thing is exactly like Promathia Mission 3-5's vandalism by user, "Angrykitty" who overwrote all the documents created by user, "Valyana" with what Angrykitty felt was better. So there were documents in place designed to show people what to expect that were overwrote and basically vandalized by Angrykitty who put there strategy up there like it was the best. So now users no longer have battlefield pictures to look at and use, they have a series of red-circled graphics depicting a suggested layout that doesnt even work unless Diabolos is in the perfect spot. So the page is ruined in a way, and will forever give people false-information as no one will ever create new Diabolos battlefield screenshots.

So I hope anyone who sees this Talk page passes it along for others to see, and it stands as a Testament to people who actually make good entries... only to have them dumbed-down by others, and then go thru the endless battle of trying to maintain ACCURATE information on here to make other user's lives easier. I'd like to speak for everyone when I say, "dont make changes just for the sake of change-score-points." It should be something that improves on the original work, and is JUSTIFIABLE. At some point we shouldnt have to deal with total idiocy when doing events in FFXI with people. Accurate wiki entries will help that. --- Malitia, 2009

I made the changes because while *I* was following the directions, all I wanted was a to-the-point, why are these directions telling me what they are telling me, sort of explanation. I am not angry (as you seem to be?) and was just editing to make things more clear. The reason I changed things from 1 bullet to do was not to make it "more cluttered" but because the breaking up of information makes it easier to read. I expect each bullet to be ONE step, not a series of steps. The bullets are supposed to be directions, why would one direction give me multiple things to do? I've even done this mission before (albeit a long time ago) and I had no idea, from the directions you insist are correct, that I had to enter the locked door, click a thing, come back OUT the locked door to fight a mob, and then go BACK to the locked door for another cutscene. I thought, "oh ok I enter a door and fight a mob and leave." Yes, maybe I was skimming to fast, but breaking up the information just makes it more clear for those who are skimming and makes for easier directions anyway.

  1. I took out the part about the link because, well, if someone is already reading this entry, they know how to get here. If they don't, then the person who IS reading it will obviously give them a link, he or she doesn't need to be told how to get to where they already are or be told how to tell someone else how to get to where they already are - they already got there.
  2. Your edit about Coral crest keys: I barely changed anything other than reorganize information. Now the person knows, at a glance, how many keys and of what kind are needed, not an explanation of why he needs to get them. The explanation is below if he WANTS to know, but I consider what I need and from what mob more important than some long explanation of why people are too lazy to get keys. Also, why would you need to kill Keremet with ANOTHER party? You can kill it with the same one. I completely reorganized this area just to make it more logical. I apologize if you do not see the logic in my organization, you seem to be hell-bent on thinking that your way is the best way, now that I've read your explanation, I understand why you think that but from your prior actions, it seemed you were changing it just to change it. Also, I reworded a lot of things just to make them LESS wordy while also splitting them up into sections - is that sooo bad?
  3. Healer does not equal mage: Yes, I know. Every mage is not a "healer" and most mages, in this situation, would sub a "healer" job. Also, I resent the classification of RDM as healer. So why not be completely clear then and compromise on this: "...instead of waiting for the RDM or WHM to sneak you."
  4. Poison pots: Ok, I thought the original wording was really confusing and I fixed the run-on sentence and broke it up to make it more understandable. No reason other than that. I really do not see any reason why a confusing run on sentence would be better than the one I wrote.
  5. The note I made about Keremet being optional. I don't see why we don't keep that information in the entry. It is not required for Keremet to be defeated. In fact, I consider that very good information. I went in the other night with the impression that we had to kill Keremet until my friend told me he already had a Sealion Crest Key and we could completely skip that part.
  6. "After checking this, you will have access to Sacrarium" Putting "now" instead of "will" is just a grammatical error. I fixed it.
  7. Again the issue with coral crest keys. I broke it down into a sub-bullet to reiterate the information in the Prep Tips in case someone skipped the prep tips and went straight to the walkthrough. It makes the necessary step easier to read with the extra information directly below it.
  8. It isn't first. "FIRST" is traversing the maze, or talking to justinius, or any of the steps ahead of killing the skeletons.
  9. Why would you recommend an optional step and then say that it's a good piece of advice and anyone reading the walkthrough should pay attention? It's just redundant. Of course whoever is reading this recommended optional step is going to pay attention to it, because they already are paying attention to it. Also, I changed the order of the recommendation because it explains why you should follow the recommendation before actual telling you what it is. So I moved it to make the progression more logical.
  10. "Find and click on the wooden gate...and then head back out" I moved the second part to another bullet because it was another direction. It makes more sense to have one direction per bullet, that's why I did it. I don't expect a bulleted list of instructions to suddenly give me two steps in one bullet rather than one-to-one like the already established convention.
  11. I concede the line "Old Professor Mariselle will pop in..." However, I wanted to put the reason why they were directed to look in all the rooms before the direction to go look in those rooms. Perhaps "Now you must spawn Old Professor Mariselle. He will spawn from one of the ??? in one of the six classrooms..." or something along those lines.
  12. I think "All 3 NMs" is more informative than "They." I have a technical writing degree, I prefer more explicit explanations.
  13. "Click on the Wooden Gate..." rather than "head back to..." - I don't really care which one we use, I just thought "Click on the..." sounded better, since the party will obviously head toward it if you tell them to click on it.

I don't understand why you are so angry about these edits. You seem to be on some sort of self-righteous crusade about the history of edit wars or something. I only made changes I thought were necessary and I only removed like one thing, the directions about the URL at the beginning. -thanopstru 19:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I have to say that while I have not done this mission, Thanopstru's edits seem good on the whole. The way the walkthrough is worded now it reads more like a user guide and less like an objective walkthrough. Malitia, if you want to create a guide for this based on personal experiences that's obviously welcome and would/should be linked to this page, but overall I think this page can be streamlined and styled more like the majority of the other mission pages. --GAHOO t/ c 22:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I have to say that while I have not done this mission, Thanopstru's edits seem good on the whole. The way the walkthrough is worded now it reads more like a user guide and less like an objective walkthrough.
You're exactly right. So this is exactly what I was referring to before where we have pages that were not written well to begin with, or written well, but then edited-down. I never created the 4-3 or even put in a lot to the body because it was way too much work to redo the entire walkthru into something better, because I agree its not good; same with most of the CoP pages. But when I see a lot of changes that dont need to be put there in the first place, or have obvious author-opinion in them, thats why the UNDO's came in place. So if you are saying that "it reads more like a user guide and less like an objective walkthrough" then I dont understand why you are so resistant to leaving it the way it is, instead of allowing it to further fall into that category.

Malitia, if you want to create a guide for this based on personal experiences that's obviously welcome a nd would/should be linked to this page
 This is a good idea for people dedicated to educating themselves on whats going on in what they are doing in game, but the reality is over 50% of people will look no further than the 1st page IE- the Prom4-3 page. Verification of this can be found simply with the CoP1-3 page, that has an extensive walkthru/guide which is widely not used.

but overall I think this page can be streamlined and styled more like the majority of the other mission pages.
Im not even sure what to say here... Have you seen the other pages? They are a far, far cry from streamlined. Its not even on the same planet as that word.

Thousands and thousands of people are going to look to these pages for specific details on what to do, I think that fact sometimes get overlooked or forgotten... I dont think we should compromise proper information structure, just to simply appease a dispute. Ive done heavy overhauls of every CoP page, and tons of people have edited them after me. If my way isnt the best, then great. If the edits improve upon the original document then wonderful I dont undo the changes. But if they are just garbage edits, editing just for the sake of it, then they should be undone. I mean, its CoP wiki, its not like its Joe-Blow random Windurst quest that has no baring on anyone but themself... I think it requires a bit more scrutiny, and if the people who have taken the time to put a watch on pages like the CoP ones take a firm stance on why they shouldnt be changed.. I think that needs to be evaluated a little more seriously. The same can be said with all the Expansion Missions. Really pages like this should be on a different level with regard to edit-access. But thats beyond the scope of this topic.
But really tho people shouldnt make changes, see that they get undone and become upset, undo the undone changes, call in a problem, repeat cycle, repeat cycle, all the while never putting up any explanation or talk as to what was wrong with the previous structure. I dont think thats an unrealistic opinion. Especially on these kinds of pages, and especially the certain ones like 1-3, 3-5, 4-3, 5-2, 6-4. Its like wow these are the hardest one's and often give people the most hassle, I wonder if contributers are going to be a little more critical to changes in the format and content. That screams of common sense to me.
--Malitia 08:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Try to avoid excessive hyperbole, use a spell checker, be concise. Put stategies or advice on their own page where they belong. The main pages are meant to be guides for fellow players, not a complete step by step walkthrough. Not everyone wants to see the main page triple or double in size. Furthermore, the single experience of an individual should not be made out to be the only viable method to complete tasks. A diverse population makes for multitude of approaches to the same goal. Asphe 17:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


>>"but overall I think this page can be streamlined and styled more like the majority of the other mission pages.
Im not even sure what to say here... Have you seen the other pages? They are a far, far cry from streamlined. Its not even on the same planet as that word."<< Then wouldn't it make sense to make them more streamlined? I already explained my edits, something that you seem extremely hung up on. It's true that I made grammatical/reorganization/wording changes and that's what I put in my Summary, I didn't realize I had to defend every single tiny edit that I made. I was trying to make every bullet a distinct point or direction or recommendation, not one bullet for information + some random wandering dialogue about how things can go wrong.

By the way, I don't think any of my edits are "garbage" edits. They were things that I noticed were either grammatically incorrect, worded in a confusing matter, or needed reorganization so that the flow of information was easier to follow. Calling them garbage edits is hurtful and inflamatory, which I don't believe belongs on this wiki. I have NEVER edited a page just to edit it, that would be ridiculous. Plus, if you even look at my rank, you'll see that I have very very few points because I don't believe in changing things unless they really need changing. Last I checked, I was still "easy prey."

Also, I just completed the CoP 5-2 Promy-Vahzl climb about 20 minutes ago and I intend to restructure that walkthrough as well, since it is not easy to read or follow either. Since it is so important to you, I will accompany that with a detailed list in the discussion page of why I changed every single miniscule thing that I did. -thanopstru 02:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Malitia's Prep Tips!

  • Have everyone in the party read up on this mission. Understanding the various steps of a complicated mission will help prevent miscommunication and failure. If necessary, give members the link to this Wiki page if they can't find it themselves. It's ok to be a little bit assertive when setting this up, as failure means people lose a lot of time; Sacrarium is often a very time consuming investment.
  • Consider getting a Coral Crest Key. Two Coral Crest Keys and a Sealion Crest Key (dropped from Keremet) are required to get the entire party into the various rooms in Sacrarium.
    • Obtaining the Coral Crest Keys beforehand will save a lot of time and hassle; one idea to accomplish this is by joining/forming a Subligar farming run in Sacrarium and lotting on the subsequent Coral Crest Key drops. This is beneficial because you will have time to lower your Fomor Hate before the actual mission. Farming the Coral Crest Key during the mission will raise the hate of everyone in the party, which will be counter-productive for anyone has previously lowered their fomor hate.
    • The Sealion Crest Key should be held by someone without a Coral Crest Key. The Coral Crest Keys break upon use, so one person with both keys will not be able to open the door. Only 1 member is going to get the Sealion Crest Key, so if that member leaves due to time constraint or party wipes, then you have to kill Keremet again to get another Sealion Crest Key.
  • Consider lowering your Fomor Hate. This is so important as the Sacrarium mission takes a very long time, and your ability to walk through the Fomor without aggro, especially for the final NM fight, will help a lot. The combination of having a Coral Crest Key, and lowest Fomor Hate when you do this mission can knock 1 hour off the overall time to complete the mission.
  • Bring Silent Oil (3-4). Nothing in Sacrarium requires the use of Invisible and there are only a few times where you will even need Sneak. It will speed up the process if you can sneak yourself instead of waiting for the mages to sneak you. The worst thing you can do is be the one who is hanging behind because your sneak wore off, or end up dying or getting other members killed because you aggro'd a mob. 3-4 Silent Oil is cheap enough for anyone's pocket to afford.
  • Consider Poison Potion (3-4) for your fight with Old Professor Mariselle. He will use Sleepga very often and it will greatly increase your chances of success if you can keep damaging him while he attacks and teleports elsewhere in the room..
  • Bring Hi-Potion (5), Regen-drinks and Refresh-drinks. The Old Professor Mariselle fight and location pose a tricky situation - having these consumable items will greatly increase your odds of success. The Regen-drinks are also good because it would effectively counter-act the Poison Potion effect. Pear au Lait (1-2) works well for this, but even something as simple as Selbina Milk(12) will be good if you keep using it when it wears off, as it will offer you HP restore when there is the short break in the fight when he teleports around the room.
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